# Senate blocks repeal of DADT **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585 "2010-12-09T21:34:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/81 "2010-12-18T15:49:53Z")
Those in opposition saying things like “repeal would cause a 30% drop in recruitment and retention” are dumb, even in the real world out there, the predicted problems failed to show up. > **[How Gay Soldiers Serve Openly Around The World](https://www.wbur.org/npr/131857684/how-gay-soldiers-serve-openly-around-the-world)** > > A study of five U.S. allies who ended bans on gays openly serving in their militaries showed that the wide-scale disruptions feared by opponents had never materialized, says historian and study author Nathaniel Frank. He discusses his findings and... > [@](#): > > In February, historian Nathaniel Frank authored a comprehensive study of five U.S. allies that have successfully lifted bans or other restrictions on gays openly serving in the military – Britain, Israel, Canada, South Africa and Australia. > > “In many of those countries, debate before the policy changes was highly pitched,” Frank wrote in his study, titled “Gays in Foreign Militaries 2010: A Global Primer.” “Many people both inside and outside the military predicted major disruptions. … Research has uniformly shown that transitions to policies of equal treatment without regard to sexual orientation have been highly successful and have had no negative impact on morale, recruitment, retention, readiness or overall combat effectiveness.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/82 "2010-12-18T16:12:28Z")
**Scylla** , since you support the repeal of DADT, have you called your Senator today? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Those in opposition saying things like “repeal would cause a 30% drop in recruitment and retention” are dumb, even in the real world out there, the predicted problems failed to show up. > > [http://www.wbur.org/npr/131857684/how-gay-soldiers-serve-openly-around-the-world](http://www.wbur.org/npr/131857684/how-gay-soldiers-serve-openly-around-the-world) America has many more Christian fundamentalists than those places, though, which is the real problem. I think the even more compelling point is that, compared against speculation that a large number people will choose not to join the military or will leave it, we know for certain that DADT causes great harm to our military. In addition to discharging thousands of able and honorable soldiers, it leads to the loss of key personnel. Over 800 servicemembers have been discharged from so-called “critical positions,” which are hard-to-fill positions involving rare skills (including 10% of our translators, and an even higher percentage of Arab-language translators). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/83 "2010-12-18T16:38:12Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > America has many more Christian fundamentalists than those places, though, which is the real problem. Yes, but even there one has to remember that fundamentalists did use religion to also oppose desegregation. > **[News Archives](https://www.findarticles.com/news/)** > > Explore the News Articles featuring Technology, Business, Entertainment, and Science & Health topics. Access reports, insights, and stories. I see the same tale coming up regarding the gay issue, eventually (it may take decades but the change has already taken place) they will figure out ways to claim that all along \*\*they \*\*were in favor of doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/84 "2010-12-18T16:57:27Z")
Well, I’m watching CNN right now, and it looks like the Senate is going to vote to repeal. Are the Republicans allowing this because the tax cut bill is signed? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/85 "2010-12-18T17:01:28Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Yes, but even there one has to remember that fundamentalists did use religion to also oppose desegregation. > > [News Articles - FindArticles](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NXG/is_1_34/ai_94160906/) > > I see the same tale coming up regarding the gay issue, eventually (it may take decades but the change has already taken place) they will figure out ways to claim that all along \*\*they \*\*were in favor of doing the right thing. But (a) that’s a different point from the one previously being made, that America would be just like everywhere else, and (b) I think homophobia is probably more inherent to Christian Fundamentalism than racism was. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/86 "2010-12-18T17:17:25Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > But (a) that’s a different point from the one previously being made, that America would be just like everywhere else, and (b) I think homophobia is probably more inherent to Christian Fundamentalism than racism was. Actually, that is acknowledging the previous point, we will get to be like the rest of the world even with the assumption that we are so different; IMHO **like in other countries** , it was the recent judicial rulings caused the tide to turn at last. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/87 "2010-12-18T18:02:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, I’m watching CNN right now, and it looks like the Senate is going to vote to repeal. > > Are the Republicans allowing this because the tax cut bill is signed? Yes. Well, the 6 Republicans who voted yes, voted that way because they support repeal and because the tax cut has been signed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/88 "2010-12-18T18:07:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Yes. Well, the 6 Republicans who voted yes, voted that way because they support repeal and because the tax cut has been signed. Yes, that’s a more precise way of putting it. The Republicans vowed to block all legislation until the tax cuts were passed. Once the tax cut was passed, the few Republicans who supported the repeal were free to vote for it. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/89 "2010-12-18T18:08:06Z")
Remember, though, that this is only a vote for cloture. They still have to vote on the bill itself. However, now the threshold is 50+, rather than 60+, so it’s 99% likely to pass, even if the Republicans who voted for cloture vote against the bill itself. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/90 "2010-12-18T18:22:53Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Remember, though, that this is only a vote for cloture. They still have to vote on the bill itself. However, now the threshold is 50+, rather than 60+, so it’s 99% likely to pass, even if the Republicans who voted for cloture vote against the bill itself. True. Is there any indication that any of the Republicans who voted for cloture will vote against the repeal? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/91 "2010-12-18T18:26:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > True. Is there any indication that any of the Republicans who voted for cloture will vote against the repeal? No. BTW, one Democrat and three Republicans didn’t vote on cloture. The Democrat who didn’t vote, whose name escapes me, had come out against it. The vote will be held at 3pm Eastern so in about 90 minutes. A few more Senators may not bother to vote but there is no way it will fail. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/92 "2010-12-18T18:36:30Z")
Keep in mind this repeal doesn’t instantly mean DADT is off the books. What it does do is basically put it in the President’s hands to implement on a timetable. It is going to happen, just not overnight. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/93 "2010-12-18T18:40:38Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > No. > > BTW, one Democrat and three Republicans didn’t vote on cloture. The Democrat who didn’t vote, whose name escapes me, had come out against it. Manchin - WV? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/94 "2010-12-18T19:45:40Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Keep in mind this repeal doesn’t instantly mean DADT is off the books. What it does do is basically put it in the President’s hands to implement on a timetable. It is going to happen, just not overnight. Right. Repealing DADT just sets the clock back to 1992. It’s now up to the President and the military to implement a repeal of the rules against being homosexual in the military. DADT was, rather than the “improvement” that it was supposed to be, a giant detour that set the whole thing back 17 years because it took the whole thing out of the hands of the Executive and required a legislative repeal (which is the source of all the tsuris over the past two years) before new rules could be implemented to allow homosexual troops. **Raygun** - Yes. [John Cole](http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/12/18/profiles-in-courage-3/#comments) (who is a WV resident) has been waxing eloquent about Manchin’s yellow streak on DADT for days now. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/95 "2010-12-18T20:04:08Z")
Vote is happening now. I’m watching on CSPAN2. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/96 "2010-12-18T20:20:49Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Right. Repealing DADT just sets the clock back to 1992. Wait. Is that really true? If this bill passes, is it then technically possible to be kicked out just for being gay? is there no verbiage in this bill that directs the military to not discharge people on the basis of sexual orientation immediately? Doesn’t it keep DADT in place until the new policy is implemented? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/97 "2010-12-18T20:29:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Wait. Is that really true? If this bill passes, is it then technically possible to be kicked out just for being gay? is there no verbiage in this bill that directs the military to not discharge people on the basis of sexual orientation immediately? Doesn’t it keep DADT in place until the new policy is implemented? No, that’s not really true. This bill keeps DADT in place until 60 days after: 1. The Secretary of Defense receives a report on the effect of repeal and how it should be implemented (the one issued back in November), and 2. The President, SecDef and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff send a letter to the Defense committees saying they’ve implemented the suggestions in the report and are ready for repeal. You can read the bill here: [http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:6:./temp/~c1117wpNjS::](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:6:./temp/~c1117wpNjS::) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/98 "2010-12-18T20:31:23Z")
And it passes 65-31. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/99 "2010-12-18T20:33:57Z")
Bill passed 65-31. I didn’t catch which 2 Senators changed their position from the cloture vote. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585/100 "2010-12-18T20:41:50Z")
65-31. Woot! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-blocks-repeal-of-dadt/563585.md?page=6)