# Senate candidate lies about service in Vietnam. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 18, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875 "2010-05-18T13:31:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/121 "2010-05-19T01:34:27Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Once again, settle down. Funny, for a retard that has to hyperanalyze A FUCKING JOKE. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/122 "2010-05-19T01:50:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I said: > > And they predicted that Dems would weigh party affiliation over character: > > \*“Character ? that don’t mean \*\*\*\*.” \* > > (As I explained, I view ‘\*\*\*\*’ as meaning ‘shit, when compared to party affiliation.’ In other words, they believe that Dems will weigh party affiliation above character; I believe it’s unfortunate that RTFirefly does that.) > > Now you come along and say that you don’t find it unethical, immoral, or irrational. Good for you. I find it unfortunate, however, and I stand by that statement. I’m not a Democrat and never have been. I’ve been a registered Independent since 1984 when I turned 18 and voted for Reagan. When I say character doesn’t matter, I mean it doesn’t matter ever for any legislator, no matter what the affiliation. Their job is not to have character, their job is to draft and pass legislation. Good character doesn’t help me a bit if they don’t draft and vote the way I want. Bad character doesn’t hurt me if they do. I assume as a matter of course that most politicians at the national level are crooked, narcissistic scumbags and am surprised if they are not. If they’re not doing anything criminally violent or larcenous I don’t care. That doesn’t mean I don’t think Blumenthal is an asshole and an idiot for for lying about his service, but it’s not a good enough reason to surrender a Senate seat to people who won’t vote the way I want. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/123 "2010-05-19T02:06:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > (As I explained, I view ‘\*\*\*\*’ as meaning ‘shit, when compared to party affiliation.’ In other words, they believe that Dems will weigh party affiliation above character; I believe it’s unfortunate that RTFirefly does that.) First of all, I think it’s a crock to think that one two-year-old quote, which was apparently all that Linda McMahon’s oppo research team could find to stick on Blumenthal after a pretty enormous effort, is the summation of Blumenthal’s ‘character.’ Second, I think it’s quite reasonable to look at the potential repercussions of this character lapse if he should win the position he seeks. Does it mean his vote can be bought? Does it mean that he’ll take showy, publicity-hogging positions rather than figuring out what a bill really means, and voting accordingly? Does it mean that he’ll be the sort to sympathize with the difficulties of the well-off but not those struggling to get by? I’m not seeing any connection between the weakness of character that brought on this dishonest statement, and the weaknesses of character that would be genuinely problematic in a U.S. Senator. Third, by elevating this incident above everything, and insisting that Blumenthal step down even if it means a Republican wins, does that mean I’d be putting my personal standards of character above the well-being of millions of Americans who would benefit from legislation passed by a larger Democratic majority? There’s something less than morally awesome about expecting others to pay the price for my rectitude. So I rather think I’m putting things in their proper perspective. Maybe it does equate, in this environment, to putting “party affiliation above character” as Bricker puts it, but phraseology aside, I think I’m taking the better, more moral stance here. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/124 "2010-05-19T02:57:56Z")
**Diogenes,** what motivated Congress to pass the Civil Rights Act? Was that done just to please most voters and gain reelection? > [@](#): > > **Balance** : We’re supposed to be voting for people who will carry out our will, by proposing, supporting, and ultimately voting for the policies we want to see enacted. That’s what **Diogenes** believes. I guess that works out if the _voters_ have a little character. But I don’t count on it. I had rather vote for a candidate that I believe will “do the right thing.” It has to be someone _with character_ that I trust to make informed decisions after careful consideration of the consequences. Otherwise, we just have someone who reads the polls and goes with the crowd. That’s not a leader. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/125 "2010-05-19T02:59:00Z")
BTW, news headline: Specter is out. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/126 "2010-05-19T03:05:14Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Vietnam veterans were awarded either the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or the Vietnam Service Medal. So it does apply. 18 USC § 704: > [@](#): > > Military medals or decorations > How Current is This? > (a) In General.— Whoever knowingly wears, purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt for, manufactures, sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters, or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. > (b) False Claims About Receipt of Military Decorations or Medals.— Whoever falsely represents himself or herself, verbally or in writing, to have been awarded any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the Armed Forces of the United States, any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration, or medal, or any colorable imitation of such item shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than six months, or both. > (c) Enhanced Penalty for Offenses Involving Congressional Medal of Honor.— > (1) In general.— If a decoration or medal involved in an offense under subsection (a) or (b) is a Congressional Medal of Honor, in lieu of the punishment provided in that subsection, the offender shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both. > (2) Congressional medal of honor defined.— In this subsection, the term “Congressional Medal of Honor” means— > (A) a medal of honor awarded under section 3741, 6241, or 8741 of title 10 or section 491 of title 14; > (B) a duplicate medal of honor issued under section 3754, 6256, or 8754 of title 10 or section 504 of title 14; or > (C) a replacement of a medal of honor provided under section 3747, 6253, or 8747 of title 10 or section 501 of title 14. > (d) Enhanced Penalty for Offenses Involving Certain Other Medals.— If a decoration or medal involved in an offense described in subsection (a) or (b) is a distinguished-service cross awarded under section 3742 of title 10, a Navy cross awarded under section 6242 of title 10, an Air Force cross awarded under section 8742 of section 10, a silver star awarded under section 3746, 6244, or 8746 of title 10, a Purple Heart awarded under section 1129 of title 10, or any replacement or duplicate medal for such medal as authorized by law, in lieu of the punishment provided in the applicable subsection, the offender shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both. As far as we are aware, Blumenthal said nothing about medals. He said he’d done something for which he might be presumed to have received a medal, but no reasonable reading of the Stolen Valor Act could result in him being accused of violating it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/127 "2010-05-19T03:46:46Z")
Apparently just a couple months ago during a TV debate he clearly stated that he did not serve in Vietnam. Given that it’s hard to see some kind of campaign to deceive. It sucks that he was ever unclear. On the other hand, the origins of the times story and the fact that CT vets and the Democratic establishment are still behind him make it seem likely that he’ll come out of this just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/128 "2010-05-19T03:53:02Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > When I read this story I thought, ‘‘Well, _his_ career’s over.’’ It _should_ be. He should have given a short statement to express abject shame and announce his immediate resignation, and then slunk away, never to be seen in the public arena again. Cynical as I usually feel myself to be, I am still a little boggled that this is not what is happening. Is there _no_ shame? _None?_ > [@robby](#): > > If this torpedoes his candidacy, it will be a loss for Connecticut and the U.S. Senate. > [@Balance](#): > > The thing is, this sort of thing _shouldn’t_ matter. I guess I’m old-fashioned, or something. I believe in choosing candidates on policy _from among_ the candidates with some discernible shred of character. I can forgive the Democratic Party, and their candidates in other jurisdictions, Blumenthal’s lies. I don’t know that I can forgive them their party’s partisans’ indifference to the lies. If he’s still on the party ticket when the time comes, I believe it will hurt the party nationally–even if he wins. Maybe even more so if he does. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/129 "2010-05-19T04:07:05Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Diogenes,** what motivated Congress to pass the Civil Rights Act? Was that done just to please most voters and gain reelection? I don’t know. I haven’t studied the poitical motivations of the time, but I didn’t say their motivations had to be purely voter driven. My guess is that those who voted for it were probably doing the will of their own constituents. It also doesn’t mean anyone has good character just because they voted for a good law. LBJ, the guy who signed the Civil Rights Act, certainly had some character flaws. Does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/130 "2010-05-19T04:15:57Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Diogenes,** what motivated Congress to pass the Civil Rights Act? Was that done just to please most voters and gain reelection? > > That’s what **Diogenes** believes. I guess that works out if the _voters_ have a little character. But I don’t count on it. I had rather vote for a candidate that I believe will “do the right thing.” It has to be someone _with character_ that I trust to make informed decisions after careful consideration of the consequences. > > Otherwise, we just have someone who reads the polls and goes with the crowd. That’s not a leader. They don’t do what the polls say, anyways. As all of us know, there are lobbyists for most commercial entities. The congressperson tries to appease them first, as they have a more direct consequence on that persons. Especially now that they don’t have caps to what they can contribute. Piss enough of them off, and you may not have any funds to actually run. Ultimately, getting elected has little to do with doing what the people want, and more to do with telling them what they want to hear. The better you are at making your actions seem like they are what everybody wants, the more likely you get reelected. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/131 "2010-05-19T04:27:05Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > It _should_ be. He should have given a short statement to express abject shame and announce his immediate resignation, and then slunk away, never to be seen in the public arena again. > > Cynical as I usually feel myself to be, I am still a little boggled that this is not what is happening. Is there _no_ shame? _None?_ > > I guess I’m old-fashioned, or something. I believe in choosing candidates on policy _from among_ the candidates with some discernible shred of character. > > I can forgive the Democratic Party, and their candidates in other jurisdictions, Blumenthal’s lies. I don’t know that I can forgive them their party’s partisans’ indifference to the lies. > > If he’s still on the party ticket when the time comes, I believe it will hurt the party nationally–even if he wins. Maybe even more so if he does. Do you think John Ensign’s affair and attempt to pay off the husband of his mistress has hurt the Republican Party? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/132 "2010-05-19T04:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > It should be. He should have given a short statement to express abject shame and announce his immediate resignation, and then slunk away, never to be seen in the public arena again. > > Cynical as I usually feel myself to be, I am still a little boggled that this is not what is happening. Is there no shame? None? Please. This is ridiculous overdramatising. What Blumenthal did was undeniably wrong. But if current politicians were ranked by the wrongs they’ve committed, he wouldn’t even enter the top one hundred. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/133 "2010-05-19T05:24:04Z")
When I heard about what he’d done and didn’t know what party he was a part of, I sighed and said to myself “You moron. You ‘misspeak’, whether you were trying to mislead or not, and you dig your own grave. You’re a politician giving speeches. Pay attention to what you’re saying.” But I didn’t really think he was being intentionally misleading. I just didn’t get that read. I don’t expect politicians to be any smarter than I am. But saying it more than once in more than one speech, implying it that way… sigh. I still don’t think making a boneheaded mistake should destroy a man’s career outside of gross misconduct or incompetence, but lying about military service gets under my skin. My daddy didn’t serve in the US Armed Forces for thirty years to have some asshole paper-pusher say ‘Me too, me too!’ Oh. And the Bush comment was obviously a joke, if a somewhat lame one. I would have chuckled at a barbecue if someone’d said it. I’m biased as hell against the man and considering the war he’d gotten us into by 2002 I would have probably been pissed when he said it, but it’s a damn joke. It’s not like he said “If I’d known what I was getting into, I would have turned around and hopped back on the flight to Vietnam and gone back to that war I was in.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/134 "2010-05-19T09:55:04Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You mean sort of like when an anti-gay rights homosexual Republican gets outed and the left crows that it proves all conservatives are hypocrites? 😉 Usually I hear it as “all anti-gay campaigners/politicians are closeted hypocrites”. And given that it seems like there’s another one every few weeks, it’s getting to be a very well-supported argument. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/135 "2010-05-19T10:03:17Z")
George W Bush was a one man _Elite_ force in Nam. He single handedly cleared out enemy camps in both \*Chung King \*and _La choy._ No official records exist. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/136 "2010-05-19T12:34:45Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > Weasel word “apparently” notwithstanding, the charge in Jack Batty’s post was that Blumenthal “lied about being on the Harvard swim team.” Actually, the charge was: “that’s what they said on MSNBC that morning.” Chrissakes, the story broke about 2 minutes after I got up that morning, and I flicked past Morning Joe while I was brushing my teeth. I saw this thread and thought I’d impart what I heard on the TeeVee. Sorry my vetting didn’t come up to snuff. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/137 "2010-05-19T13:31:03Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Vietnam veterans were awarded either the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or the Vietnam Service Medal. So it does apply. You got caught in another lazy, stupid, partisan falsehood. Just accept it and try harder in the future, Hoss. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/138 "2010-05-19T13:34:19Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Usually I hear it as “all anti-gay campaigners/politicians are closeted hypocrites”. And given that it seems like there’s another one every few weeks, it’s getting to be a very well-supported argument. The key word is “campaigners”. It probably doesn’t mean much of anything if somebody gets squicked out when they stumble upon the sight of two guys making out or catch a glimpse of some flamboyant Gay Pride display, but doesn’t give much thought to the matter the rest of the time. When somebody puts significant effort into making an issue of being anti-gay, on the other hand… yeah, they’re probably either 1)a cynical panderer to bigotry or 2)a self-loathing closet case. Getting back to the subject of this thread – as long as I have the amateur shrink couch unfolded, I might as well comment on Blumenthal. I think that he let the distinction between “I served during the Vietnam era” and “I served in Vietnam” blur, first by not correcting other people’s misleading statements and ultimately by making misleading statements of his own, until he convinced himself that the distinction didn’t really matter. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/139 "2010-05-19T13:45:13Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > George W Bush was a one man _Elite_ force in Nam. He single handedly cleared out enemy camps in both \*Chung King \*and _La choy._ No official records exist. It’s not well known that he worked closely with General Tso on those campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875/140 "2010-05-19T13:47:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ah ha! > > This proves all Democrats are liars! > > 😃 No, it only proves he worked for Nixon. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-candidate-lies-about-service-in-vietnam/539875.md?page=8)