# Senate Democrats' abortion vote shows they are determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 27, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269 "2019-02-27T02:10:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/41 "2019-03-01T00:37:00Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Remember, their goal is to try to unseat Democratic incumbents with GOP challengers in the next election. How do you attack a Democrat for voting for this bill? What kind of campaign ad can you write that uses this against them? That’s easy. Wait for them to lose the primary against a pro-choice Democrat. No more incumbent Democrat, and a crapshoot for the general election! Nice anecdote about how a single rural district flipped D for a couple cycles and then flipped back R. It will be given all due weight in further discussion. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/42 "2019-03-01T00:56:00Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > That’s easy. Wait for them to lose the primary against a pro-choice Democrat. No more incumbent Democrat, and a crapshoot for the general election! If voting for this bill (despite having a lengthy record of other pro-choice votes) makes one no longer a “pro-choice Democrat”, that is your problem with extremism right there. And I \*\*hate \*\*primary challenges from the left in swing states or districts. (In a safe blue seat, go for it.) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/43 "2019-03-01T01:22:03Z")
But what you’re missing is that this isn’t a bill that would be harmless and sound good – it would cause real harm to real people. If the republicans proposed what they called an anti-theft bill, which in actuality allowed police officers to stop and frisk anyone walking through a wealthy residential neighborhood after 5 PM if they “looked suspicious”, would you be in favor of the democrats rolling over and letting our civil rights get trampled? Just because the republicans came up with a snazy name? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/44 "2019-03-01T01:59:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But what you’re missing is that this isn’t a bill that would be harmless and sound good – it would cause real harm to real people. Maybe you and the others arguing with me in this thread can sort out whether this law would be completely redundant (and thus, obviously, harmless) or “cause real harm”, and get back to me. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/45 "2019-03-01T02:46:26Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Maybe you and the others arguing with me in this thread can sort out whether this law would be completely redundant (and thus, obviously, harmless) or “cause real harm”, and get back to me. :rolleyes: Yeah, why should the guy who started the thread have a clue what’s going on? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/46 "2019-03-01T03:03:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Maybe you and the others arguing with me in this thread can sort out whether this law would be completely redundant (and thus, obviously, harmless) or “cause real harm”, and get back to me. :rolleyes: Maybe you could figure that shit out yourself, and start a thread when you’ve educated yourself on the subject? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/47 "2019-03-01T03:23:48Z")
AGAIN: This is a political thread. NOT a policy thread, which would properly go in GD. How about YOU start THAT thread if you like? (I won’t join it, but have at it.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/48 "2019-03-01T03:36:25Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > AGAIN: This is a political thread. NOT a policy thread, which would properly go in GD. Which is why you’re asking folks to explain the policy implications of the bill. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/49 "2019-03-01T03:51:21Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Maybe you and the others arguing with me in this thread can sort out whether this law would be completely redundant (and thus, obviously, harmless) or “cause real harm” If you had done even the most cursory research on this bill yourself, you would have easily found out that it’s both: namely, any **protections** conferred by this bill are completely redundant because they already exist in other laws, while the **harms** caused by it could be quite damaging (in the rare cases that this bill would actually cover). [Here’s an explanation of the harmful aspects:](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/health/abortion-bill-trump.html) > [@](#): > > The bill would require doctors to use all means available to save the life of a child born alive after an attempted abortion. […] > > Less than 1 percent of all abortions are done after 24 weeks, and many are performed because the fetus has a fatal condition or the pregnant woman’s life or health is at severe risk. […] > > Dr. Grossman said there were painful situations in which the fetus might be at the edge of viability and labor must be induced to save the mother’s life. For instance, a condition called pre-eclampsia, involving high blood pressure and other problems, can kill both mother and fetus, and in most cases the only treatment is to deliver the baby. If it seems unlikely that the baby will survive, the family may choose to provide just comfort care — wrapping and cuddling the baby — and allow the child to die naturally without extreme attempts at resuscitation. > > The bill would force doctors to resuscitate such an infant, even if the parents did not want those measures, said Dr. Jennifer Conti, an obstetrician gynecologist who is a fellow of Physicians for Reproductive Health, an advocacy group. Doctors who violated the law would be subject to criminal penalties, as would anyone who saw the violation and failed to report it, she said. I think it’s kind of disgusting that you’re trying to treat this issue as a mere game of “political optics”, and are criticizing the Democrats who voted against this callous and malicious bill for not cynically going along with it to burden families and doctors with pointless suffering. ISTM it would be absolutely heartbreaking for the grieving mother of a non-viable fetus to know that her doctor is being forced to painfully resuscitate it after delivery only to let it painfully die, because otherwise the doctor could go to jail. That’s the sort of real-life consequences you’re cavalierly ignoring when you whine that Democrats aren’t being sufficiently “politically savvy” in voting against this bill. (Where’s the “spits contemptuously” smiley when we need one?) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/50 "2019-03-01T03:58:00Z")
I guess you better get ready to be even more contemptuous, because I am not moved by the scenario you lay out. In my view, it’s not up to the parents at that point. Moreover, I am virtually certain that most voters would agree with me. So just be contemptuous of the voters you want on your side, and see how that works out. :rolleyes: ETA: Even if I did believe the consequences would be unfortunate for a small number of families, they can get over it; whereas in many cases the people who are harmed when Republicans repeatedly win presidential elections and control Congress might not be able to get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/51 "2019-03-01T04:05:49Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I guess you better get ready to be even more contemptuous, because I am not moved by the scenario you lay out. In my view, it’s not up to the parents at that point. Moreover, I am virtually certain that most voters would agree with me. So just be contemptuous of the voters you want on your side, and see how that works out. :rolleyes: > > ETA: Even if I did believe the consequences would be unfortunate for a small number of families, they can get over it; whereas in many cases the people who are harmed when Republicans repeatedly win presidential elections and control Congress might not be able to get over it. Cool. Cool cool cool. Parents who have a child who’s on the verge of death don’t get to make decisions for how that infant spends its final hours, because their doing so is politically inconvenient for you. Democrats should shit in the wounds of those grieving parents, for the greater good. Your version of politics isn’t one I super care for, nor do I think your belief in its superior viability is warranted. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/52 "2019-03-01T04:08:35Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > In my view, it’s not up to the parents at that point. You don’t think it should be up to the parent(s), along with their doctor, to decide whether a nonviable aborted fetus that briefly survives delivery should have to go through painful and useless resuscitation procedures? Who do you believe is better placed to make that decision? > [@SlackerInc](#): > > in many cases the people who are harmed when Republicans repeatedly win presidential elections and control Congress might not be able to get over it. Then how about you get out there and help educate voters on the realities of late-term abortion procedures and the importance of ensuring that women and their doctors can make these very tough decisions on a case-by-case basis, instead of just pissing and moaning on a messageboard that taking a principled stand against cruel and callous “pro-life” legislation might hurt Democrats politically because the voters are too ignorant? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/53 "2019-03-01T04:36:14Z")
And by the way, if we’re talking political messaging here, the main message that today’s Republican Party is voluntarily handing on a plate to its Democratic opponents is “Republicans are liars”. They lie that climate change isn’t a serious environmental problem, they lie that Trump’s inauguration crowd was bigger than Obama’s, they lie that Trump isn’t a cheat and a conman, they lie that their tax cuts aren’t primarily for the benefit of the rich, they lie about Democrats planning to confiscate all guns, they lie that abstinence-only sex education is effective and sufficient, they lie that the basic facts of evolution are scientifically questionable, they lie about undocumented immigrants costing more in social services than they contribute in taxes, they lie about anything that they think their base will swallow a lie about. And, not surprisingly, they also lie about the necessity for legislation requiring doctors to perform useless resuscitation procedures on nonviable aborted fetuses in order to “protect babies”. As though the medical miracle of a late-term crisis pregnancy termination producing an aborted fetus that could actually survive and successfully develop on its own would somehow simply **not be noticed** by the attending physician(s) unless they were legally forced, under pain of criminal proceedings, to resuscitate it. [_spitting contemptuously again, while rolling eyes_] ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/54 "2019-03-01T05:09:42Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I guess you better get ready to be even more contemptuous, because I am not moved by the scenario you lay out. In my view, it’s not up to the parents at that point. Moreover, I am virtually certain that most voters would agree with me. So just be contemptuous of the voters you want on your side, and see how that works out. :rolleyes:. You’re unmoved that a piece of legislation would override the doctor and parents’ personal and medical decisions. You think the US Senate should make a blanket decision on proper medical procedure. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/55 "2019-03-01T05:28:25Z")
Kimstu, I cosign your statement about all those GOP lies. Not a single one of them is true, and they are despicable calumnies. Unfortunately, this vote helps make one of their most effective attacks not a lie: “Democrats are callous, even ghoulish, extremists when it comes to unborn babies.” :smack: This is exactly why the grassroots hates party “flacks” like the whip who encouraged Rebecca McClanahan to cast the safe vote in the Missouri House, counsel that she ignored. But you all should be down on your knees thanking these cynical, triangulating party insiders, because without them no progress would ever be achieved. So envision a contemptuous spit emoji from me in the other direction, along with a desperate hope that the cynical hacks will reassert power before it’s too late. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/56 "2019-03-01T06:19:01Z")
[Hey SlackerInc, meet me out back.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21513983&postcount=43) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/57 "2019-03-01T17:05:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Unfortunately, this vote helps make one of their most effective attacks not a lie: “Democrats are callous, even ghoulish, extremists when it comes to unborn babies.” Huh? Of course it’s a lie. There is nothing in the least callous or extreme, much less ghoulish, about refusing to go along with intrusive legislation to inflict unnecessary suffering on non-viable aborted fetuses, families and physicians. On the contrary, what’s ghoulish and callous is the Republicans’ attempt to gratuitously impose these cruel requirements merely as a PR ploy to try to paint Democrats as “baby-killers”. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > But you all should be down on your knees thanking these cynical, triangulating party insiders Ignorant people frequently think it makes them look smart to treat serious issues merely as exercises in political maneuvering, with no regard to the factual substance of the issues. That way they can assume an air of sagacity without actually knowing the import of what’s being maneuvered about. This is how we got, for example, millions of people smugly patting themselves on the back for their astuteness in dismissing climate change as a “fake” crisis. They didn’t understand anything about climate science or fossil-fuel greenhouse-gas production, but they (thought they) understood that a massive environmental crisis would be somehow politically advantageous for scientists, so they gleefully wrote the whole thing off as a political maneuver on behalf of “One World Government” or some such bullshit. And this is also how we’re getting ignorant self-styled “cynical” people with only the most superficial understanding of the issues trying to second-guess policy positions on legislation concerning late-term abortions. What we need to do, instead of indulging their conceited fantasies of being canny political operatives, is to increase public awareness of the actual facts of the issues, and keep pointing out when Republicans are blatantly lying about them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/58 "2019-03-01T20:50:37Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I guess you better get ready to be even more contemptuous, because I am not moved by the scenario you lay out. In my view, it’s not up to the parents at that point. Moreover, I am virtually certain that most voters would agree with me. So just be contemptuous of the voters you want on your side, and see how that works out. :rolleyes: > > ETA: Even if I did believe the consequences would be unfortunate for a small number of families, they can get over it; whereas in many cases the people who are harmed when Republicans repeatedly win presidential elections and control Congress might not be able to get over it. The kind of the consequences are more than just “unfortunate”. “Get over it”? Look up some of the horrifying birth defects that lead to these scenarios, the come back and tell me they’ll just “get over it”. (For example, alobar holoprosencephaly, often accompanied by cyclopia. Normally I’d caution AGAINST googling this sort of thing, but for someone like you, **SlackerInc** , I think you might need a reality check.) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/59 "2019-03-01T22:36:08Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I don’t know–but why vote against it? It is all just typical “gotcha” politics. Note the republicans were in control of the entire government for two years yet didn’t put this bill forward then (did they push for any anti abortion bills while they had the best chance in 50 years to do so?). > [@](#): > > **How credible is the Democrats’ argument about rejecting a redundant law?** > > Critics of the Democratic position on the Senate bill say the redundancy argument is a fig leaf for political considerations. If Democrats agree with the overall principle, the argument goes, there is little harm in passing a law that reinforces existing statutes. > > “Personally, I do not think it credible for Democrats to say they are against ‘executing babies after birth’ if they are unwilling to provide criminal and civil penalties to abortion doctors that kill babies that survive abortions, nor provide equal standard of medical care for such babies,” Duncan said. “It is a largely rhetorical strategy to get out of an embarrassing position.” > > There is a long tradition in Congress by both parties of putting forward bills that seek to force the other party into casting awkward votes. This law would fall into that category, said Mary Ziegler, a Florida State University law professor and author of the books Beyond Abortion: Roe v. Wade and the Fight for Privacy and After Roe: The Lost History of the Abortion Debate. > > The Senate bill “mostly appealed to Republicans because it would put Democrats in a difficult political situation,” Ziegler said. “Polls show that most Americans are uncomfortable with later abortions, much less anything after a live birth. Focusing on this issue is strategically savvy, even if it would make very little difference to the overall number of abortions.” > > SOURCE: [PolitiFact | Fact-checking Donald Trump's tweet saying Democrats 'don’t mind executing' babies after birth](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/feb/28/donald-trump/fact-checking-donald-trumps-tweet-saying-democrats/) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269/60 "2019-03-02T00:44:02Z")
I liked this analysis, in an anti-Trump magazine with a long and storied history, written by a former member of the Obama Administration: > **[The Abortion Debate Needs Moral Lament](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/abortion-will-play-big-role-2020/583873/)** > > “Born alive” bills show where abortion politics are going. > [@](#): > > By focusing on abortion rights, Democrats ended up arguing a lot about what was not explicitly in the bill, while neglecting to make clear to the American people that they do, in fact, oppose infanticide and believe babies born alive after a botched abortion deserve medical care consistent with similarly situated babies who are born under any other circumstance. Not one Democrat uttered the phrase born alive during the floor debate. Not one Democrat referred to the 2002 act or expressed support for it during the floor debate. If Democrats truly believe the bill is a disingenuous attempt in a long game to end access to abortion, they could at least have been clear while voting against it that they endorse its sponsors’ stated intent. They could have also proposed, or tried to propose, amendments to the legislation, as the writer Charles Camosy has suggested.[…] > > Our politicians spend so much time with people who agree with them, using talking points cleared by or provided by entrenched advocacy groups and pursuing electoral strategies more reliant on base turnout than persuasion, that it has become difficult to tell if they have simply forgotten how to speak with people who hold a different viewpoint or if they simply do not care.[…] > > Former Governor Mike Huckabee accused Democrats of wanting to “murder freshly born babies.” Senator Chuck Schumer said during floor debate that “the bill is solely meant to intimidate doctors and restrict patients’ access to care and has nothing, nothing, nothing to do with protecting children.” There is no sense that anti-abortion Republicans are influenced by the stories of women like Dr. Jen Gunter or Erika Christensen. There is no sense that pro-choice Democrats are aware of sincere pro-life Americans, or take seriously the claim that abortion is an attack on the very human dignity Democrats rightly invoke (and, yes, many anti-abortion Republicans ignore) when discussing immigration, poverty, or human rights. Now our politics are only for the absolutists, those who deny any place for doubt or humility.[…] > > **Regardless of concerns about the political motives driving the conversation, if Democrats can’t support a bill that penalizes denying proper care to a baby who survives an abortion because it might undermine other commitments, or offer a serious alternative proposal that protects those commitments, perhaps those commitments require further examination.** If the penalties in Sasse’s bill for situations that Democrats say are either rare or non-existent are capable of impeding the entire medical field’s capacity to conduct abortions, what does that say about how thin the line is between proper care and negligence?[…] > > Trump’s anti-abortion stance appears to be one of political convenience, not deeply-rooted conviction, and I am uninterested in the transparently self-interested appeals to morality of a man whose life and presidency have been so thoroughly immoral. He has no standing to lecture Democrats or anyone else on how to uphold human dignity and advance justice in our politics. **Democrats do have an obligation, though, to provide a clear answer to Americans who are not so cynical, who are concerned that our approach to abortion is one sign, along with policies espoused by Trump and Republicans, that we have lost our moral bearings as a country in pursuit of political power.** Bolding mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-democrats-abortion-vote-shows-they-are-determined-to-snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory/830269.md?page=4)