# Senate nominee from Missouri Todd Akin is a feeble-minded moron. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 19, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993 "2012-08-19T19:50:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/81 "2012-08-20T15:04:54Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Apparently there is even [some dumbass reporter](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/dave-catanese-politico-todd-akin-rape_n_1810222.html?ir=Politics&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009) defending him. > “So perhaps some can agree that all rapes that are reported are not actually rapes? Or are we gonna really deny that for PC sake?” he said. “So looks like he meant to say – ‘If a woman was REALLY raped, it’s statistically less likely for her to get pregnant.’ What’s the science?” > > I like how he makes a declarative statement about statistics and then asks everyone what the truth really is. Asshole. Wait a second – I don’t follow this complaint. It’s certainly true that not every rape reported is in fact a rape. And it’s certainly fair to say, “I don’t know the factual answer: is there some scientific reason a rape would be less likely to result in pregnancy?” I don’t think there’s much value in pointing and laughing at someone who doesn’t know, admits he doesn’t know, and seeks the correct answer. This is in contrast to someone who claims certainty in his knowledge and is demonstrably wrong, of course, as with Akins. The correct response, it seems, is the factual answer: the science does not indicate any medical reason relating to women’s bodily functions that rapes would result in a lower rate of pregnancies. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/82 "2012-08-20T15:06:35Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > …The US in 2010 had 84,767 rapes. That’s just in one country. These are only the rapes that are _reported._ > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > …Meanwhile, back in reality: A 1996 study by the American Journal of Obstetricians and Gynecologists found “rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency” and is “a cause of many unwanted pregnancies” — an estimated “32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year.” [http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php?ref=fpblg](http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php?ref=fpblg) > [@JKellyMap](#): > > [Yahoo Search - Web Search](http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090513200754AAHBsbh) > > Studies from 1998 and 2000 found that pregnancies occur at the same rate in rape and non-rape vaginal-penetration-with-male-orgasm acts: 5 percent. Which results in an average of 25,000 pregnancies from rape each year in the US… I know it’s the Pit and all, but I’d still like to see some reconciliation of these apparently conflicting numbers. If 25,000 pregnancies = 5% of annual rapes, then annual rapes = 500,000. And if 32,101 pregnancies “result from rape each year”, by the same calculation this represents 642,000 annual rapes. Neither of these are even in the same ballpark as **Locrian** ’s 84,767. This does nothing to mitigate the stupidity of the aspiring Senator, of course, and I heartily endorse his Pitting. But if I happen to have this discussion elsewhere, I’d like to be safe and confident of my own facts. I’d go with the higher numbers, as there are two cites supporting them. But if **Locrian** has a cite for that lower number, I’d be interested in seeing it. If the discrepancy involves those being “reported” versus the higher numbers being estimations, that would explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/83 "2012-08-20T15:07:12Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] This is in contrast to someone who claims certainty in his knowledge and is demonstrably wrong, of course, as with Akins. [/QUOTE] Akin_ **s** _? :eek: Good God, he’s replicating. It may be too late. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/84 "2012-08-20T15:09:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wait a second – I don’t follow this complaint. > > It’s certainly true that not every rape reported is in fact a rape. > > And it’s certainly fair to say, “I don’t know the factual answer: is there some scientific reason a rape would be less likely to result in pregnancy?” > > I don’t think there’s much value in pointing and laughing at someone who doesn’t know, admits he doesn’t know, and seeks the correct answer. This is in contrast to someone who claims certainty in his knowledge and is demonstrably wrong, of course, as with Akins. The issue isn’t with the under, or over-reporting of rape ([it’s under-reported, btw](http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates)). He’s not trying to “seek the correct answer” or he’d find out that there are somewhere in the realm of 32,000 pregnancies by rape each year. He’s trying to pretend that Akin is “opening up a legitimate line of debate”, which is what, whether or not pregnancies can result from rape? That’s not a debate. Akin is certainly not discussing the reporting levels of rape as a crime, so what important debate is Catanese defending here? Because his last line is, “The left is often 1st to shut down debate as “off limits” when it deems so. Aren’t these moments supposed to open up a larger debate?” So what debate is being “shut down”? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/85 "2012-08-20T15:29:41Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Right, because all those people who were going to vote for the Republican in the first place are just going to abandon him in droves now that he’s come out as not a big fan of women. No, because more women who wouldn’t have bothered to go to the polls may now do so in order to vote against him. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if he won in spite of this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/86 "2012-08-20T15:30:44Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > The issue isn’t with the under, or over-reporting of rape ([it’s under-reported, btw](http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates)). I agree rape is under-reported. Although I would note that the graphic you like to does not include or mention false reports of rape – it starts by noting what happens in every hundred cases of rape, but does not reveal how many cases of rape reported to the police are not true. It’s thus unclear whether the reason that we drop from 46 rapes reported to police to twelve leading to an arrest is a function of some of those rape reports being false. Still, i think it’s beyond cavil that more real rapes are unreported than there are false rape reports, so I absolutely agree that on balance, rape is under-reported. > [@](#): > > He’s not trying to “seek the correct answer” or he’d find out that there are somewhere in the realm of 32,000 pregnancies by rape each year. Here’s where I’m not sure I agree. He’s not trying to seek the right answer. If he were, he’d find out…? How does one “find out” but by asking the question? > [@](#): > > He’s trying to pretend that Akin is “opening up a legitimate line of debate”, which is what, whether or not pregnancies can result from rape? That’s not a debate. Akin is certainly not discussing the reporting levels of rape as a crime, so what important debate is Catanese defending here? Because his last line is, “The left is often 1st to shut down debate as “off limits” when it deems so. Aren’t these moments supposed to open up a larger debate?” > > So what debate is being “shut down”? I don’t know. I suppose there might be some confusion that ties back to “legitimate” rapes, which Akin may have meant as a very ignorant but not unique synonym for stranger rape. It’s a true statement that stranger rape results in less than 10 percent of rape-related pregnancies, although for reasons statistical and not medical. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/87 "2012-08-20T15:33:14Z")
> [@](#): > > …That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if he won in spite of this. Shocked, horrified and disgusted, yes. Surprised, no. Old, old joke. Noah Webster, famed dictionary guy, was caught _in flagrante delicious_ by his wife. She said “Noah Webster! I am surprised to see this!” “No, my dear, you are _astonished_, I am _surprised_.” ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/88 "2012-08-20T15:39:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree rape is under-reported. Although I would note that the graphic you like to does not include or mention false reports of rape – it starts by noting what happens in every hundred cases of rape, but does not reveal how many cases of rape reported to the police are not true. It’s thus unclear whether the reason that we drop from 46 rapes reported to police to twelve leading to an arrest is a function of some of those rape reports being false. Still, i think it’s beyond cavil that more real rapes are unreported than there are false rape reports, so I absolutely agree that on balance, rape is under-reported. Again, nothing in what Akin said raised the issue of rape reporting. It’s a non-sequitor to detract from the ridiculousness of claiming that pregnancy doesn’t happen via rape. “But sometimes people report rape when it didn’t happen!” Fantastic, not related at all to what is being discussed. This guy is trying to create doubt about the validity of a woman reporting a rape by pointing out that there is a small incidence of false reporting, but it has nothing to do at all with women getting pregnant from rape. > [@](#): > > I don’t know. I suppose there might be some confusion that ties back to “legitimate” rapes, which Akin may have meant as a very ignorant but not unique synonym for stranger rape. It’s a true statement that stranger rape results in less than 10 percent of rape-related pregnancies, although for reasons statistical and not medical. I still haven’t seen what “debate” is allegedly being stifled by people being outraged at Akin’s comment. He is claiming that people’s outrage is resulting in the avoidance of a debate-worthy topic that Akin raised. What is that topic? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/89 "2012-08-20T15:42:14Z")
I think we should teach the controversy. ETA: Actually, controversies. Do rapes cause pregnancies and do baby come from storks? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/90 "2012-08-20T15:44:02Z")
I think you gotta cut them some slack. The Republicans are trying desperately to return us to another time - the past! They want women to not want abortions, and minorities to stop wanting their rights, and Christianity back in government, as a given, etc. So they keep saying these seemingly moronic things, and no doubt wondering why everyone is so quick to get so upset, sheesh. That’s because they are truly living in their own little worlds, where people haven’t evolved to accepting a woman’s right to choose, or gay marriage, etc. I don’t think they can help themselves. Even if they can’t see the writing on the wall, I think they can smell change in the air, and are behaving this way as they are scared that this might be their last race as contenders. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/91 "2012-08-20T15:48:23Z")
As noted upthread, _Talking Points Memo_ is tracking closely as this clusterfuck unfolds. Today, this: > [@](#): > > The dynamic emerging this morning is Republicans becoming more full-throated in their condemnation of Rep. Todd Akin’s “legitimate rape” remarks while Democrats hold some of their fire for fear of driving Akin from the race. > > In the former category, you have Mitt Romney getting his bearings and taking a new stronger swipe at Akin: “insulting, inexcusable, and, frankly, wrong.” Sen. Scott Brown is calling for Akin to drop out of the Missouri Senate race. In the latter category, Akin’s opponent, Claire McCaskill (D-MO) would really rather Akin not go anywhere… [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/) Links to sources on the site. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/92 "2012-08-20T16:03:56Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Again, nothing in what Akin said raised the issue of rape reporting. It’s a non-sequitor to detract from the ridiculousness of claiming that pregnancy doesn’t happen via rape. “But sometimes people report rape when it didn’t happen!” Fantastic, not related at all to what is being discussed. This guy is trying to create doubt about the validity of a woman reporting a rape by pointing out that there is a small incidence of false reporting, but it has nothing to do at all with women getting pregnant from rape. > > I still haven’t seen what “debate” is allegedly being stifled by people being outraged at Akin’s comment. He is claiming that people’s outrage is resulting in the avoidance of a debate-worthy topic that Akin raised. What is that topic? I don’t know. I don’t see one. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/93 "2012-08-20T16:04:05Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I think you gotta cut them some slack. The Republicans are trying desperately to return us to another time - the past! They want women to not want abortions, and minorities to stop wanting their rights, and Christianity back in government, as a given, etc. So they keep saying these seemingly moronic things, and no doubt wondering why everyone is so quick to get so upset, sheesh. That’s because they are truly living in their own little worlds, where people haven’t evolved to accepting a woman’s right to choose, or gay marriage, etc. I don’t think they can help themselves. Even if they can’t see the writing on the wall, I think they can smell change in the air, and are behaving this way as they are scared that this might be their last race as contenders. Non-coincidentally, there were a lot fewer reported rapes back then, too! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/94 "2012-08-20T16:13:16Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Here is my clinical evidence. > [http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php](http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php) So THAT’S what that switch on their ass is for! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/95 "2012-08-20T16:15:15Z")
It is intriguing to me, on a meta-level, that **Bricker** would even bother to try the nearly-patented **Bricker** non-defense defense by obfuscation here. Certainly **Bricker** has proven himself to be an irredeemable partisan douchebag of the highest order, but I didn’t think even he would try to muddy the waters on this one. **Garfield** at least has regional allegiances to fuel his efforts to try to derail the thread. Of course, that makes him no less the douchebag, but at least if you squint you can see a little of his motivation. Guys, guys, please take note that even Romney has issued statement 2.0, realizing that a polite disagreement on the matter will not suffice when the comments were as outrageous as they were. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/96 "2012-08-20T17:14:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Now I realise that technically speaking that’s only _one_ flaw, but I thought it was such a big one, it was worth mentioning twice. I _like_ bodies natural defenses. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/97 "2012-08-20T17:17:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > A superlative suggestion, sir, with just two minor flaws. One, the woman’s body doesn’t have any natural defenses against rape-pregnancy, and two, the woman’s body doesn’t have any natural defenses against rape-pregnancy. Now I realise that technically speaking that’s only _one_ flaw, but I thought it was such a big one, it was worth mentioning twice. Au contraire, [here is a diagram](http://angryblackladychronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/20120820-094000.jpg)explaining how it all works. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/98 "2012-08-20T17:38:04Z")
[Akin did an interview on Mike Huckabee’s radio show and says he won’t quit the race.](http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2012/08/20/todd-akin-apologizes-for-rape-comment.html) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/99 "2012-08-20T17:43:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here’s where I’m not sure I agree. > > He’s not trying to seek the right answer. If he were, he’d find out…? > > How does one “find out” but by asking the question? Do a lot of reporters rely on Twitter for their fact-finding? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993/100 "2012-08-20T17:46:01Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > It used to be that when I saw a thread title like this I immediately discarded it as the newest “I don’t like Republicans so I’ll hammer on them whether they deserve it or not” thread. Now I see it and wonder what stupid thing they said this time. > > Have I changed, or have they? > [@davidm](#): > > Here is my clinical evidence. > [http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php](http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php) It was not meant to be a factual statement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-nominee-from-missouri-todd-akin-is-a-feeble-minded-moron/631993.md?page=6)