# Senate says goodbye to dress code **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 20, 2023, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409 "2023-09-20T06:05:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/61 "2023-09-24T01:18:58Z")
I hit the “like” button. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/62 "2023-09-24T02:33:47Z")
Bill Belichick is the head coach of the NFL’s New England Patriots. He is paid at least $20 million per year and his work has contributed to eight Superbowl wins in his coaching career (including teams other than the Pats). He is clearly extremely effective in his profession… On gameday, he dresses like he’s about to go out and wash his car. It is possible to dress sloppily and yet still be effective and professional. Belichick proves it. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/63 "2023-09-24T16:32:59Z")
Though perhaps not with this year’s team (shudder). ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/64 "2023-09-24T16:51:40Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > On gameday, he dresses like he’s about to go out and wash his car. I remember the days of NFL coaches in coat and tie (and in one well-known case, a hat). I read some years ago that that wouldn’t be permitted now; coaches must wear branded gear for their team. Belichick does take that rule to its extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/65 "2023-09-24T16:59:26Z")
The Post, on the cutting edge of journalism as always: > **[The Post tried eating at NYC’s finest restaurants dressed like Sen. John...](https://nypost.com/2023/09/23/the-post-tried-eating-at-nycs-finest-restaurants-dressed-like-sen-john-fetterman-see-how-it-went/amp/)** > > He may be allowed to dress like an oaf in the United States Congress — but Sen. John Fetterman would be shown the door at the Big Apple’s finest restaurants. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/66 "2023-09-24T17:20:09Z")
This is one of those many situations in which I feel I have a certain preference, but am not really sure why. I started a thread a while back about men wearing hats in restaurants. As a kid, I was just taught that men took off their hats inside - and especially at the table. I guess I don’t really know why that was expected, and I don’t really care if anyone does or doesn’t wear a hat at the table (outside of my house.) I’m also pretty performance focussed. So if someone is doing a good job, I don’t care what he/she is wearing. OTOH, I see some value in not being overly sloppy, to show respect for the process one is engaged in and those around one. As a general rule, I’m not sure there are any non-labor work situations in which one needs to dress more sloppily than a Costco employee. A polo and casual slacks is fine. Wearing shorts and a hoodie is entirely unnecessary and IMO intended to send a message - if nothing more than, “I consider my comfort and convenience of primary importance.” I’m not terribly familiar w/ Fetterman’s job performance. I know his pronouncements generally resemble my views, and I’d certainly rather have him as a Senator than Dr. Oz. But how impressive has he been? I don’t recall hearing his name in contexts other than his mental health care and his casual attire. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/67 "2023-09-24T18:17:24Z")
I think there’s some psychological issue beneath all this. I’m speculating that Fetterman shared it with Schumer—perhaps wearing the suit makes him anxious—and Schumer is helping him out without explaining why. It’s nobody else’s business. To be clear, I have no concerns if that is the case. I voted for Fetterman and I would again. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/68 "2023-09-24T19:10:02Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > As a kid, I was just taught that men took off their hats inside - and especially at the table. I guess I don’t really know why that was expected, and I don’t really care if anyone does or doesn’t wear a hat at the table (outside of my house.) > **[Hats Off! Hat Etiquette for Everyone](https://emilypost.com/advice/hats-off-hat-etiquette-for-everyone)** > > Even in today's increasingly casual culture, following proper hat etiquette is seen as a sign of respect. Knowing when to remove a hat is as important as wearing the right hat for the occasion. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/69 "2023-09-24T19:16:04Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I read some years ago that that wouldn’t be permitted now; coaches must wear branded gear for their team. This is true, and has been the NFL’s policy since 1993. That said, in 2006, two NFL head coaches – Mike Nolan and Jack Del Rio – wanted to wear suits on the sidelines; in Nolan’s case, he wanted to do it to honor his father, Dick, who had been an NFL head coach in the 1960s and 1970s (and who did, in fact, wear suits while coaching). The league initially refused, but then relented a bit, and worked with Reebok (which, at the time, had the NFL’s gear contract) to make suits for the two of them. As this article from back then notes, each of them had permission to wear the suits for two games as an experiment; I’m not sure, but I don’t think that the experiment continued past that season. > **[Dress to impress: Nolan, Del Rio get OK to wear suits](https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2663580)** > > Mike Nolan and Jack Del Rio are ready to suit up. > > The San Francisco coach and his Jacksonville counterpart have > the NFL's permission to wear dress suits designed by Reebok during > two games this season. Nolan in his suit: [![](https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2008/10/21/nolanmug21_10-21-2008_7REGKHB.jpg) ](https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2008/10/21/nolanmug21_10-21-2008_7REGKHB.jpg) Del Rio: [![](https://mlouie128.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/jack.jpg) ](https://mlouie128.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/jack.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/70 "2023-09-24T22:12:57Z")
The Washington Post says “hold my beer”. > ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/71 "2023-09-24T22:14:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > This is one of those many situations in which I feel I have a certain preference, but am not really sure why. I started a thread a while back about men wearing hats in restaurants. As a kid, I was just taught that men took off their hats inside - and especially at the table. I guess I don’t really know why that was expected, and I don’t really care if anyone does or doesn’t wear a hat at the table (outside of my house.) I always defer to George Carlin on the subject of hat etiquette. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/NNkkko4vlBs/hqdefault.jpg "George Carlin-Christian hats and religion") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNkkko4vlBs) ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/72 "2023-09-24T22:23:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The Washington Post says “hold my beer”. “…at least Donald Trump knows how to dress” - seriously? His suits don’t fit, and he wears his ties extra long, all in a feeble effort to hide his weight. The man is an embarrassment to haberdashery. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/73 "2023-09-24T22:39:06Z")
You write it down, then erase it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/74 "2023-09-24T23:04:40Z")
If the fabric matches the weather, suits are comfortable and also have handy pockets. I don’t think most people should wear them if they do not wish to. But I do think they look professional. Not sure if that best describes the Senate though, maybe clown shoes or tinfoil hats? **Excerpt (see below)** _Finally, dress codes are a marker of social, national, professional or philosophical commonality. They bespeak shared ideals or training, membership in a group. This is why sports teams and the military wear uniforms. Why medical professionals wear white coats. Business attire may not be a uniform, exactly, but it serves a similar function. It’s true that in recent years, offices have loosened their dress codes, embracing all kinds of workplace attire. But the Senate is more than just a “workplace.” It represents the highest level of our country’s government, whose actions are watched by and hold consequences for the entire world. Such an august body needs to look the part. A sea of 100 adults all dressed in some kind of instantly recognizable, respectful manner — a suit and tie, a skirt and jacket — creates a unified visual entity. A group in which individuals have agreed to subsume their differences into an overarching, sartorial whole._ _But as we all know, the Senate has never been more divided. In a body so riven, one of the last symbolic markers of accord is a dress code. Can such a code eliminate the profound differences beneath the surface? Of course not. But it does remind senators and everyone around them (including the general public) of the still-noble goal of consensus. A sum greater than its parts._ [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/22/style/senate-dress-code-politics.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/22/style/senate-dress-code-politics.html) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/75 "2023-09-24T23:54:48Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > This is true, and has been the NFL’s policy since 1993. In the context of this thread, it’s interesting to find a dress code that prohibits suits. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/76 "2023-09-25T00:03:01Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > In the context of this thread, it’s interesting to find a dress code that prohibits suits. Indeed. Major League Baseball, as well, effectively requires managers and coaches to wear the same uniforms as their players, as a rule states that managers and coaches aren’t allowed onto the playing field unless they’re in uniform. Connie Mack (the longtime owner and manager of the Philadelphia A’s) wore a suit while managing, and he got around the rule by never actually going onto the field. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/77 "2023-09-25T01:27:44Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > If the fabric matches the weather, suits are comfortable and also have handy pockets. I don’t think most people should wear them if they do not wish to. But I do think they look professional. How much of that is purely cultural conditioning, though? To what extent is your inclination to feel that they “look professional” the result of a lifetime of seeing (predominantly male) authority figures and wealthy individuals wearing them? Your Times quote outlines it clearly: suits are not about “professionalism”, they’re about _conformity_. Personally, all a suit says to me is, “Here is a person who is not prepared to engage in significant physical activity.” Pockets are good–but hoodies, jeans, and labcoats do pockets better. Layers are good, but a suit’s layers aren’t real–you can’t take off the jacket to take advantage of the layers without losing the social power of the suit and becoming “unprofessional”. Slacks are reasonably comfortable, but not as durable as I’d prefer for anything more than walking around or sitting at a desk. Ties are ridiculous–pointless outside of desperate attempts by guys trapped in suit culture to introduce some color, and a social minefield then. (“That tie’s too bright. It looks unprofessional.”) What looks “professional” to me is someone who is dressed to get work done. Jeans, sensible shoes, and layered clothing if there’s a reasonable expectation of a cold environment–that would look professional to me. A labcoat over jeans and a tshirt would look professional. (Hell, if your profession might take you outdoors in Texas right now, even briefly, I’d say that cargo shorts and a moisture-wicking shirt would look professional.) Suits as we know them got their start during the Black Death, when Charles II told his courtiers, in effect, “We need to start looking grim and sober, or the peasants may add us to the piles of plague victims.” And our society has clung to them like grim old Death ever since, an endless parade of “professionals” presiding over the embalmed corpse of a style. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/78 "2023-09-25T02:34:41Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Indeed. Major League Baseball, as well, effectively requires managers and coaches to wear the same uniforms as their players,… Yes, but that’s been the case for ages, so it doesn’t represent a lowering of standards. It’s probably a throwback to the days of player-managers. > [@Balance](#): > > Ties are ridiculous–pointless outside of desperate attempts by guys trapped in suit culture to introduce some color, and a social minefield then. (“That tie’s too bright. It looks unprofessional.”) I don’t enjoy wearing a tie, but I have a few that I really like. It’s been ages since I had the occasion to wear one. Ties do serve one important function. When you’re at a concert, and the singer unties his bow tie, and undoes the collar button on his shirt, you know the joint is about to swing! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/79 "2023-09-25T02:48:16Z")
Personally, I don’t even own a suit these days. On the rare occasion when I need to dress formal, I wear black slacks, a black blazer, a white button-up shirt, and an ascot tucked into the shirt, because I find ascots more comfortable to wear than modern neckties and it suggests sophistication without dangling and getting in the way like a tie does. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/80 "2023-09-25T03:27:08Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Personally, all a suit says to me is, “Here is a person who is not prepared to engage in significant physical activity.” You can certainly have made, e.g., a tuxedo for ballroom dancing: the fabric, cut, and padding will be different from a regular dinner jacket. > [@Balance](#): > > suits are not about “professionalism”, they’re about _conformity_. In some cases, say in the office, the goal is not to stand out. However, fashion can be just for fun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409.md?page=5)