# Senate says goodbye to dress code **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 20, 2023, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409 "2023-09-20T06:05:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/101 "2023-09-25T15:47:45Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > Is it against the actual law to bring a gun into congress? Or just congress rules? > > > > And sure, a senator may be stopped by the SaA but who will prevail in the court case? > > Not a constitutional expert by any stretch, but I think the authority comes from the Constitution, which gives them pretty wide latitude to make their own rules. Not just wide latitude, but complete power over their own rules. And their rules aren’t reviewable by the courts, the executive branch, or even the other house. And note, even the current Supreme Court wouldn’t overrule the Senate’s own rules, lest Congress decide to make rules about the Court’s conduct. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/102 "2023-09-25T15:57:41Z")
You could also get clothes made in Asia to order for very reasonable prices. They have tailors that travel to the West, or you could just send them your information. Large size is not a real obstacle, it is humblebrag. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/103 "2023-09-25T16:02:50Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Not just wide latitude, but complete power over their own rules. And their rules aren’t reviewable by the courts, the executive branch, or even the other house. And note, even the current Supreme Court wouldn’t overrule the Senate’s own rules, lest Congress decide to make rules about the Court’s conduct. So, they could pass a rule that senator @Pleonast is not allowed in the senate chamber? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/104 "2023-09-25T16:05:36Z")
In most contexts, I have a problem with the idea that how you dress is about showing respect to others. That concept only makes sense to me in the context of a performance, where you are part of a group that is wearing a specific outfit for a specific effect. So, say, you have a choir and you all agree to wear suits, then it would obviously be disrespectful not to wear one. But I don’t see that as part of the Senate. To be honest, until this dress code thing came up, it never even occurred to me to think about how a Senator might dress. I would just guess they dressed in a way that they thought would look good to their constituents. And sometimes that might even mean standing out among the other Senators in some way. And I don’t consider dress codes and hygiene to be in the same category. Someone wearing a hoodie is not something who is dirty and smelly. Hoodies are just more casual, not offensive. I find people who insist on a dress code to be trying to deflect from actual issues. Which, frankly, seems to be the message that Fetterman is pushing. I suspect it didn’t start that way, but that became the message when Republicans started caring about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/105 "2023-09-25T16:06:26Z")
As a doctor, when rounding on the weekends when not otherwise working, there is some temptation not to dress up in the hot summer months. I still do. Only one time I was called in for an inpatient emergency and showed up wearing a tank top, as I was at the gym. I almost always put on a shirt and tie, at least. I solved the problem, and decided to round on my inpatients since I was already there and there were not many that day. So I did not bother changing into greens. All three patients commented (and several of my nursing friends) on the tank top, though I explained I had to come to hospital stat. On a 36C day while exercising. Still, I did not repeat this, basically agreeing with them I would prefer to see my own doctor dressed nicely too. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/106 "2023-09-25T16:19:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > In most contexts, I have a problem with the idea that how you dress is about showing respect to others. I’m not sure I agree. This is difficult to articulate in concise manner since there are endless edge cases and it is difficult to cover them all. How you dress, to me, equates to free speech. You can dress how you want, you can say what you want in any circumstance. That’s your right. But, we live in a society. So, while we should not restrict those rights we should try to conform to some extent to society’s rules. That’s why you (general “you”) probably shouldn’t go to a funeral wearing a tank-top, shorts and flip-flops. It is (almost certainly) disrespectful and upsetting to others there. Just because you can, does not mean you should. Dressing in a professional manner in the US Senate seems appropriate where some care should be taken to comport oneself in a manner that respects the place and the job done there. Something that is conveyed to the nation when you are there. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/107 "2023-09-25T16:26:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Not just wide latitude, but complete power over their own rules. And their rules aren’t reviewable by the courts, the executive branch, or even the other house. And note, even the current Supreme Court wouldn’t overrule the Senate’s own rules, lest Congress decide to make rules about the Court’s conduct. > > So, they could pass a rule that senator @Pleonast is not allowed in the senate chamber? Yep, and the only appeal would be to the Senate itself. Or, indirectly, the voters. > U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 5, Paragraph ii: > Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/108 "2023-09-25T16:28:28Z")
Then why have a higher standard for expulsion in the constitution if you can get away with an easier vote to make a rule banning someone? Says it right in the bit you quoted. I do not think you can prevent a congresscritter from doing their job short of expelling them from congress (and then someone else takes their place). ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/109 "2023-09-25T16:52:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Then why have a higher standard for expulsion in the constitution if you can get away with an easier vote to make a rule banning someone? Says it right in the bit you quoted. > > I do not think you can prevent a congresscritter from doing their job short of expelling them from congress (and then someone else takes their place). There’s no mechanism to prevent a house from doing it, other than their own political calculuses. I agree this is not a good arrangement, but it is the one we have. (But I’ll note that refusing entrance to the chamber is not the same as expulsion. The chamber also sets their rules on how its members vote, address the house, serve on committees, etc. None of those things require physical access to the chamber, except by their rules. This doesn’t change your point, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/110 "2023-09-25T20:27:44Z")
It might not make a huge difference. A few years ago, a state senator from Nebraska chose to wear black t-shirts. There were huffs of indignation, then they all continued wearing their pastel suits with white belts, and he was the only aberration. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/111 "2023-09-25T20:39:47Z")
Just out of curiosity, if I go visit the House while it is in session, am I permitted to wear whatever I want? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/112 "2023-09-25T21:12:43Z")
Pretty much. During tourist season the Capitol is full of tank tops, flip flops, booty shorts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/113 "2023-09-25T21:16:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > In most contexts, I have a problem with the idea that how you dress is about showing respect to others. … > > But I don’t see that as part of the Senate. To be honest, until this dress code thing came up, it never even occurred to me to think about how a Senator might dress. You say this, and I accept what you say. All I can say is that your mindset is vastly different than mine. I would be surprised if a non-negligible percentage of adult Americans, if asked, would say anything other than that lawyers and government officials wore suits/business attire. I can imagine you not sitting around and pondering that, and I can readily accept that you could not care less, but it strikes me as very unusual that you would have never seen a photo or video of a president/senator/congressperson/governor/etc, sufficient to give you an idea of how they dress. Always interesting to encounter specific instances in which persons’ brains work vastly differently than my own. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/114 "2023-09-25T21:20:05Z")
I’m talking about people attending a session and not just entering the building, if that makes a difference (probably not, eh?). A few countries are known for dressing particularly well, with spezzatura, élan or elegance. Is the US one of those? It seems to me the capable recent ex-leaders of Finland and New Zealand were criticized for casual clothes while off duty. This is likely due to their gender; I don’t personally care what anyone wears on their own time. I do note a Guarduan article saying bankers no longer wear blazers or ties but many of the ones I know still do. People I know who whinge when I wear a tie are the same people who understand and support dress codes at their private club. Weird, that. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/115 "2023-09-25T21:33:59Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > But it seems to me the people who claim to be laid back are generally the most melodramatic when bemoaning why they don’t like ties. People who think the self-expression in nice clothing is limited to the tie generally do not know how to dress well. I will note that I did not say “self-expression” in relation to ties, I said, “color”. Let us not forget the fuss made when a certain government official so far deviated from the narrow color palette “acceptable” in suits as to wear a tan one. > [@](#): > > But let us say the senators will dress as if they will get work done and you are suitably impressed. This is not the same as doing work. Did I say that it was? We’re talking about dressing appropriately for work, which is the bare (heh) beginning. Whether they’re wearing suits, or sweaters, or hoodies, they could–if they chose–do the work of the Senate. You don’t need to bend or crawl (in the literal sense, at least) to read bills, debate, or cast a vote. You do need to be prepared to cooperate, compromise, learn, adapt, and focus on the good of the nation. Way too many of them are not prepared to do those things. As I’ve said before, I don’t mind people wearing suits. I don’t hate the way they look (though I will admit to finding them boring), and I generally support letting people wear what they like, so long as it’s suited to their activities on a practical level. I just don’t think it’s good to cling to them as the standard for “professional” attire. Tying respect specifically to a suit is an artifact of classism that I don’t believe belongs in a democratic institution. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/116 "2023-09-25T21:39:37Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > i agree on the sherwani suit, i do like eastern clothing over western. what of the howls of culture appropriation? Personally, I suspect that if we approach the issue respectfully and thoughtfully, as in: - don’t try to adopt clothing styles that are associated with culturally specific purposes, e.g., religious significance, and - don’t treat wearing that clothing as “dressing up as” a member of another ethnicity, then the culture of origin of that clothing will probably not mind our adopting it. There doesn’t seem to be any particular backlash against non-Indians wearing Nehru jackets or non-Mexicans wearing huarache sandals, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/117 "2023-09-25T22:04:54Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > For those of you who don’t care about dress, is there no situation in which you care about dress and grooming of persons you do business with? I presume you want your meal preparers/servers to exhibit SOME degree of cleanliness, no? Cleanliness is a completely separate issue from dress. Obviously, I want cooks and wait staff to be cleanly for sanitary reasons. Doctors, even more so. Maintaining sanitary standards is important to their work. And yes, I’d prefer that other people I interact with be as clean as is practical for their situation (and I’m sure their colleagues and staff would prefer Senators bathe regularly), but that has nothing to do with dress codes. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/118 "2023-09-25T22:36:15Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Obviously, I want cooks and wait staff to be cleanly for sanitary reasons. Shirt? Long pants/bare legs? Hair groomed/controlled? Shoes/sandals? Just making sure you truly don’t care about their attire. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/119 "2023-09-26T00:13:24Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Shirt? Long pants/bare legs? Hair groomed/controlled? Shoes/sandals? For my part, as long as it doesn’t affect the food and drink, I don’t care. If the person bringing me pizza, or steak, or whatever, is wearing shorts and a tshirt, they’re still bringing me pizza or steak, and for that, I’m predisposed to look favorably upon them. If they’re wearing a suit, or a uniform shirt and pants, or lederhosen, they’re _still_ bringing me food that I want, and I will still smile at them, say “please” and “thank you”, and tip appropriately. I’m not a saint–being actively rude or screwing up and refusing to fix it will erode those courtesies–but clothes that don’t affect me in any way? As long as I can tell who’s staff and who isn’t (which could be accomplished with a name badge or some other accessory), why should I care? Is that really such a strange attitude? Tangent: I do want people to be safe in their work, so I would advise them to wear some kind of clothing appropriate to potential hazards–some kind of footwear that will protect them from broken glass/dropped items/stomped toes, shirt and pants that will offer some protection from hot oil if they’re in the kitchen, no loose sleeves near open flames, that sort of thing. But those are safety standards, not sartorial ones, and there are regulatory agencies that are supposed to set workplace safety rules. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/120 "2023-09-26T00:43:43Z")
That’s fair enough. I think one would be foolish to assume a suit automatically by itself means influence or competence or authority. Between the Silicon Valley ethos and Covid, suits have become an easy target. Suits don’t have to be boring, but I concede boring people may be more likely to wear suits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409.md?page=7)