# Senate says goodbye to dress code **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 20, 2023, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409 "2023-09-20T06:05:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/121 "2023-09-26T01:33:45Z")
The House and Senate have suit wearing in common. Is it possible that a lot of Congress’s problems stem from 100 years of white men wearing their ties too tight? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/122 "2023-09-26T04:03:16Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > …but I concede boring people may be more likely to wear suits. I am not. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/123 "2023-09-26T06:24:23Z")
Isn’t there a transactional element here, i e., for a legislator/debater: don’t wear what might lead that people whose votes you need not to take you seriously. Though that’s a difficult judgement in times of socio-cultural change. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/124 "2023-09-26T08:39:56Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > In most contexts, I have a problem with the idea that how you dress is about showing respect to others. … > > > > But I don’t see that as part of the Senate. To be honest, until this dress code thing came up, it never even occurred to me to think about how a Senator might dress. ⁢ > > You say this, and I accept what you say. All I can say is that your mindset is vastly different than mine. I would be surprised if a non-negligible percentage of adult Americans, if asked, would say anything other than that lawyers and government officials wore suits/business attire. I can imagine you not sitting around and pondering that, and I can readily accept that you could not care less, but it strikes me as very unusual that you would have never seen a photo or video of a president/senator/congressperson/governor/etc, sufficient to give you an idea of how they dress. > > Always interesting to encounter specific instances in which persons’ brains work vastly differently than my own. ⁢ I don’t think I’m all that unusual. But I also think you’re assigning to me things I didn’t say. I never said I have no idea of how people in particular professions most likely dress. I just said that, when it comes to the Senate, it’s not something I’d really thought about until this topic came up. It’s just not really important. And I don’t think I’m all that unusual in rejecting the idea that not dressing a certain way is an insult to the people around me—that I’m disrespecting them. There has been an ongoing trend towards less formal dress. To me, it sounds like the sort of thing some stuffy manners coach would say. That’s not to say I don’t dress up. I do. Heck, sometimes I want to dress up more than I actually do, but I lack the clothes to do so. But I don’t like the idea that I owe it to you. I just do it because I want to look nice. It would be like saying a woman who doesn’t wear makeup is being disrespectful. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/125 "2023-09-26T11:25:52Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And I don’t think I’m all that unusual in rejecting the idea that not dressing a certain way is an insult to the people around me—that I’m disrespecting them. I suppose (and I apologize if this has already been covered) it depends on what the people around you feel is appropriate clothing for different occasions. it’s not just your call. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/126 "2023-09-26T12:56:05Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Isn’t there a transactional element here, i e., for a legislator/debater: don’t wear what might lead that people whose votes you need not to take you seriously. Or to not identify with you in the argument – it _is_ a two-way street, yes. Not only “about you” and not only about “your peers”. If you know your public (voters, jurors) want to see a Johnny Cochran, dress Johnny Cochran. If you know they are expecting a Raul Grijalva, dress Raul Grijalva (but that probably only works for Tucson). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/127 "2023-09-27T06:16:33Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > And I don’t think I’m all that unusual in rejecting the idea that not dressing a certain way is an insult to the people around me—that I’m disrespecting them. ⁢ > > I suppose (and I apologize if this has already been covered) it depends on what the people around you feel is appropriate clothing for different occasions. it’s not just your call. ⁢ No, I don’t really agree with that. I don’t see how that’s different than people picking on the kid in school who didn’t wear the “acceptable” fashions. In a society where we’re supposed to accept people who look different, I don’t see how judging someone for not dressing correctly is a good thing. We are supposed to judge by the content of people’s character, not how they look. In fact, that’s how I see the “respect” argument. People know that it’s wrong to judge by appearance, so they have to turn the appearance issue into a character issue. Then it becomes okay to judge. It doesn’t really make a lot of sense otherwise: that “disrespect” doesn’t cause any harm. It doesn’t treat you with less dignity as a person. It doesn’t help that the general trend is that the more “formal” and “acceptable” is more expensive than what isn’t acceptable. Why do I wear a lot of “pajama” pants and t-shirts? Because they’re a lot cheaper than even jeans and slacks. The linking of formal dress and class issues is still there. * * * That said, I don’t want this to be taken further than I mean. I’m not some radical or extremist on this issue. I do sometimes want to dress in ways I think look better. I do own a pair of slacks and a dress shirt for formal occasions. (And I’d own a lot more if they hadn’t gotten damaged in storage.) I’m all for the individual trying to dress in ways they think look nice, and I’m okay with that involving “conforming” to how others dress. I’m even okay with the idea that some forms of dress can look tacky in a given situation. I sometimes look at clothing and think it doesn’t look good on someone, or looks out of place. My objection is solely to the idea that it how you dress is a matter of respect—that not conforming to a particular dress standard is some sort of character flaw. It’s not even just about the formality of clothing. It equally would apply to people who, say, want to wear something more traditional from their culture. Or someone who wants to dress in a gender non-conforming manner. And don’t read the length of this as an indication of devotion. I just don’t want to take even more time trying to shorten it without removing anything I consider important. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/128 "2023-09-28T01:36:26Z")
Luckily, all has been put right with the world: > **[Senate adopts resolution requiring men to wear business attire on chamber floor](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/27/senate-dress-code-change/)** > > The change was made following days of upheaval sparked by Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer’s decision to stop enforcing the requirement of business attire. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/129 "2023-09-28T02:27:16Z")
So is it a written rule now? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/130 "2023-09-28T02:37:21Z")
Yep. The resolution can be found [here](https://www.manchin.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/dress_code_resolution.pdf?cb). Senators are required to wear business attire on the floor of the Senate, which for men shall include a coat, tie, and slacks or other long pants. The resolution does not further define “business attire” for women. The Sergeant at Arms is tasked to enforce this requirement. The resolution also states that any change to the dress code or its enforcement must be made by a 2/3 vote of the Senate, so ironically the outcome of this whole foofaraw is to make it harder to change the previously informal dress code. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/131 "2023-09-28T02:48:38Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Indeed. Major League Baseball, as well, effectively requires managers and coaches to wear the same uniforms as their players, as a rule states that managers and coaches aren’t allowed onto the playing field unless they’re in uniform. I see that for base coaches. I don’t see the rule for managers and I looked it up years ago and IIRC there was a comma that made it ambiguous if managers had to wear uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/132 "2023-09-28T08:12:55Z")
One day, Atheismo willing, Fetterman is going to be wearing his hoodie and cargo shorts while sitting at his desk in the Oval Office. And the apoplectic state of the Fox News crowd will make Tansuitgate look like child’s play. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/133 "2023-09-28T13:38:08Z")
I suggest Fett wear his suit inside out as a sign of protest, ala Fresh Prince. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/134 "2023-09-28T13:42:08Z")
I’m not sure it’s wise for such a narrow majority to impose unwelcome rules. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/135 "2023-09-28T14:00:39Z")
For a thread title, maybe _“Senate says aloha to dress code”_ would’ve been a better fit. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/136 "2023-09-28T14:26:23Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m not sure it’s wise for such a narrow majority to impose unwelcome rules. The resolution passed by unanimous consent, so I don’t know that you can call this a narrow majority imposing unwelcome rules. As for Fetterman, he rightly seems to think this whole “debate” is incredibly stupid and is fine to keep leaning in to vote in his hoodie if that’ll keep the delicate dandies from swooning onto a nearby divan. The interesting thing to me about the resolution is how it studiously avoids setting any standard for what constitutes “business attire” for women. I’m sure male Senators didn’t want to touch that topic with a ten-foot poll. Still, the Sargeant-at-Arms is required to enforce “business attire” for all Senators, so that office will need to come up with some sort of standard. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/137 "2023-09-28T14:46:32Z")
Fetterman should consider the stylish Paul Drake look. It only requires owning a single sports coat. [![](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e3/33/8b/e3338b67e17d35ae7c59651d8af7b093.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e3/33/8b/e3338b67e17d35ae7c59651d8af7b093.jpg) He could wear it over sweatpants. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/138 "2023-09-28T17:43:56Z")
Don’t be dissing Paul Drake. He was the only thing within even a whisper of cool on that show. And Hedda Hopper was his mommy. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/139 "2023-09-28T17:48:19Z")
All I know is that a giant hoodie, baggy shorts, and athletic shoes are my Halloween costume this year. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-says-goodbye-to-dress-code/990409/140 "2023-09-28T23:15:26Z")
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