The House and Senate have suit wearing in common. Is it possible that a lot of Congress’s problems stem from 100 years of white men wearing their ties too tight?
I am not.
Isn’t there a transactional element here, i e., for a legislator/debater: don’t wear what might lead that people whose votes you need not to take you seriously. Though that’s a difficult judgement in times of socio-cultural change.
I don’t think I’m all that unusual. But I also think you’re assigning to me things I didn’t say. I never said I have no idea of how people in particular professions most likely dress. I just said that, when it comes to the Senate, it’s not something I’d really thought about until this topic came up. It’s just not really important.
And I don’t think I’m all that unusual in rejecting the idea that not dressing a certain way is an insult to the people around me—that I’m disrespecting them. There has been an ongoing trend towards less formal dress. To me, it sounds like the sort of thing some stuffy manners coach would say.
That’s not to say I don’t dress up. I do. Heck, sometimes I want to dress up more than I actually do, but I lack the clothes to do so. But I don’t like the idea that I owe it to you. I just do it because I want to look nice.
It would be like saying a woman who doesn’t wear makeup is being disrespectful.
I suppose (and I apologize if this has already been covered) it depends on what the people around you feel is appropriate clothing for different occasions. it’s not just your call.
Or to not identify with you in the argument – it is a two-way street, yes. Not only “about you” and not only about “your peers”. If you know your public (voters, jurors) want to see a Johnny Cochran, dress Johnny Cochran. If you know they are expecting a Raul Grijalva, dress Raul Grijalva (but that probably only works for Tucson).
No, I don’t really agree with that. I don’t see how that’s different than people picking on the kid in school who didn’t wear the “acceptable” fashions. In a society where we’re supposed to accept people who look different, I don’t see how judging someone for not dressing correctly is a good thing. We are supposed to judge by the content of people’s character, not how they look.
In fact, that’s how I see the “respect” argument. People know that it’s wrong to judge by appearance, so they have to turn the appearance issue into a character issue. Then it becomes okay to judge. It doesn’t really make a lot of sense otherwise: that “disrespect” doesn’t cause any harm. It doesn’t treat you with less dignity as a person.
It doesn’t help that the general trend is that the more “formal” and “acceptable” is more expensive than what isn’t acceptable. Why do I wear a lot of “pajama” pants and t-shirts? Because they’re a lot cheaper than even jeans and slacks. The linking of formal dress and class issues is still there.
That said, I don’t want this to be taken further than I mean. I’m not some radical or extremist on this issue. I do sometimes want to dress in ways I think look better. I do own a pair of slacks and a dress shirt for formal occasions. (And I’d own a lot more if they hadn’t gotten damaged in storage.) I’m all for the individual trying to dress in ways they think look nice, and I’m okay with that involving “conforming” to how others dress. I’m even okay with the idea that some forms of dress can look tacky in a given situation. I sometimes look at clothing and think it doesn’t look good on someone, or looks out of place.
My objection is solely to the idea that it how you dress is a matter of respect—that not conforming to a particular dress standard is some sort of character flaw. It’s not even just about the formality of clothing. It equally would apply to people who, say, want to wear something more traditional from their culture. Or someone who wants to dress in a gender non-conforming manner.
And don’t read the length of this as an indication of devotion. I just don’t want to take even more time trying to shorten it without removing anything I consider important.
Luckily, all has been put right with the world:
So is it a written rule now?
Yep. The resolution can be found here. Senators are required to wear business attire on the floor of the Senate, which for men shall include a coat, tie, and slacks or other long pants. The resolution does not further define “business attire” for women. The Sergeant at Arms is tasked to enforce this requirement.
The resolution also states that any change to the dress code or its enforcement must be made by a 2/3 vote of the Senate, so ironically the outcome of this whole foofaraw is to make it harder to change the previously informal dress code.
I see that for base coaches. I don’t see the rule for managers and I looked it up years ago and IIRC there was a comma that made it ambiguous if managers had to wear uniforms.
One day, Atheismo willing, Fetterman is going to be wearing his hoodie and cargo shorts while sitting at his desk in the Oval Office.
And the apoplectic state of the Fox News crowd will make Tansuitgate look like child’s play.
I suggest Fett wear his suit inside out as a sign of protest, ala Fresh Prince.
I’m not sure it’s wise for such a narrow majority to impose unwelcome rules.
For a thread title, maybe “Senate says aloha to dress code” would’ve been a better fit.
The resolution passed by unanimous consent, so I don’t know that you can call this a narrow majority imposing unwelcome rules. As for Fetterman, he rightly seems to think this whole “debate” is incredibly stupid and is fine to keep leaning in to vote in his hoodie if that’ll keep the delicate dandies from swooning onto a nearby divan.
The interesting thing to me about the resolution is how it studiously avoids setting any standard for what constitutes “business attire” for women. I’m sure male Senators didn’t want to touch that topic with a ten-foot poll. Still, the Sargeant-at-Arms is required to enforce “business attire” for all Senators, so that office will need to come up with some sort of standard.
Fetterman should consider the stylish Paul Drake look. It only requires owning a single sports coat.
He could wear it over sweatpants.
Don’t be dissing Paul Drake. He was the only thing within even a whisper of cool on that show.
And Hedda Hopper was his mommy.
All I know is that a giant hoodie, baggy shorts, and athletic shoes are my Halloween costume this year.
Democracy is saved!