# Senator Boxer (D-CA) Lies and doesn't even admit it! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116 "2011-04-12T17:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/21 "2011-04-12T18:20:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’d just like for **Bricker** to come back and clarify whether the statements in the OP are intended to be factual statements. You know, like by citing them. A google search turns up only right wing and Catholic web cites repeating the claim that Boxer ever said any such thing. Not that it really matters, but it would be nice to know that **Bricker** isn’t _both_ lying and also a sack of shit. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/22 "2011-04-12T18:24:07Z")
Call me back when Boxer (or her office) claims the mention of mammograms was “not intended to be a factual statement,” as opposed to a minor slip of the tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/23 "2011-04-12T18:30:39Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > A google search turns up only right wing and Catholic web cites repeating the claim that Boxer ever said any such thing. Not that it really matters, but it would be nice to know that **Bricker** isn’t _both_ lying and also a sack of shit. > [@](#): > > Boxer warned that the upcoming vote would “shut the door” on five million women and men who rely on these services each year for critical health care needs, such as, cancer screenings, mammograms, pap smears and HIV testings. Planned Parenthood has more than 13,000 supporters in the valley with offices in Rancho Mirage and Coachella. [The right-wing source?](http://www.riversidecountydemocrats.org/page.php?50) The Riverside County Democrats, those reactionary bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/24 "2011-04-12T18:30:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Lies and doesn’t even admit it! Isn’t that pretty much the definition of lying? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/25 "2011-04-12T18:32:16Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Call me back when Boxer (or her office) claims the mention of mammograms was “not intended to be a factual statement,” as opposed to a minor slip of the tongue. “Mammograms” is a slip of the tongue? That’s quite a tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/26 "2011-04-12T18:34:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Mammograms” is a slip of the tongue? That’s quite a tongue. At least Starving Artist is too stupid to know he’s wrong, you just don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/27 "2011-04-12T18:34:41Z")
Lay off Bricker, you jerks! He’s dedicated to honest debate and not some kind of partisan hack who engages in inane attempts at false equivalencies to cover up the idiocy of the GOP.\* \*Not intended as a factual statement. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/28 "2011-04-12T18:36:24Z")
Got it. **Bricker** , you _are_ actually an idiot. Come on, don’t leave me hanging with the Clinton/blowjob thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/29 "2011-04-12T18:36:37Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Sorry, **Bricker** , no sale. 1) You appear to be pushing a false equivalence; Of COURSE. Why would a false statement about Planned Parenthood be equivalent to a false statement about Planned Parenthood? Why, the two are as different as night and … uh… later that same night. > [@](#): > > 1. even if it wasn’t, the Hon. Sen. Kyl is and shall remain a flaming asshole, a douchebag and eminently worthy of criticism; Of COURSE. Because he’s a Republican. He LIES. Boxer is a Democrat. She has “slips of the tongue.” > [@](#): > > 1. last I checked, you don’t fucking get to decide what subjects of discussion are permissible around here, And of course that one is actually true. I do have just as much right as you to post a thread, though. Stay out of this one if exposing the utter hypocriscy of the SDMB Loony Left bothers you so much, mmmkay? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/30 "2011-04-12T18:37:15Z")
But “mammograms” was just one item out of a list of items that Boxer claimed were being provided by PP. Seems easy to excuse as a slip of the tongue, and until and unless she refuses to acknowledge the error when confronted with it, I’m not seeing the equivalency here. **Bricker** , you’ve gone on and on in other threads about how you can’t call something a lie if we don’t know if the person actually knew it was untrue when he/she said it. This seems a perfect example of that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/31 "2011-04-12T18:37:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > A google search turns up only right wing and Catholic web cites repeating the claim that Boxer ever said any such thing. Not that it really matters, but it would be nice to know that **Bricker** isn’t _both_ lying and also a sack of shit. I found [this](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=85680&tsp=1) from sfgate: > [@](#): > > In California alone, hundreds of thousands of women, the Democratic Senator said, use the organization’s “life-saving” services – including cancer screenings, mammograms, day-to-day health care, OB-GYN services as well as contraception and family planning. It also says this at the end of the article, though: > [@](#): > > We’ve heard from a reader who argues that Planned Parenthood doesn’t provide mammograms. So we asked Adrienne Verrilli, director of communications for Planned Parenthood Shasta Pacific, to clarify. She said that the organization has never claimed to perform mammograms in its offices; but PP does indeed provide access to these services. It refers women for mammogram services and, in some cases, provides assistance to poor women who are in need and cannot pay for those services. So PP does provide access and funding for mammograms. The objection that they don’t do them on-site in the clinics is the sheerest pedantry, and the characterization of Boxer’s comment as a “lie,” is, in itself, sophist to the point of dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/32 "2011-04-12T18:38:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Mammograms” is a slip of the tongue? That’s quite a tongue. Wow, you’ve seriously gone off the deep end. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/33 "2011-04-12T18:39:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Bricker** , you’ve gone on and on in other threads about how you can’t call something like this a lie since we don’t know if the person actually knew it was untrue when he/she said it. This seems a perfect example of that. Bricker wasn’t intending that as an _integrity based argument™_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/34 "2011-04-12T18:39:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Mammograms” is a slip of the tongue? That’s quite a tongue. It’s actually an accurate example of a service that PP privides access and funding for. Boxer didn’t say they did them at the clinics, so you essentially don’t have a “lie” here. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/35 "2011-04-12T18:40:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [The right-wing source?](http://www.riversidecountydemocrats.org/page.php?50) The Riverside County Democrats, those reactionary bastards. Okay. Good to nail it down to just a sack of shit. But what a sack of shit! I’m shocked that you didn’t call her out for suggesting that men get pap smears and mammograms at Planned Parenthood as well. - I note that there still is no quote of Boxer saying these things, but it was only even passingly meaningful before. ETA: Just saw **Diogenes** ’ clarification. So, I’m content to add lying back in, along with sack of shit. I think I’ll even have to dust off the old **ShitBricker** epithet. Whee! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/36 "2011-04-12T18:42:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I found [this](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=85680&tsp=1) from sfgate: > > It also says this at the end of the article, though: > > So PP does provide access and funding for mammograms. The objection that they don’t do them on-site in the clinics is the sheerest pedantry, and the characterization of Boxer’s comment as a “lie,” is, in itself, sophist to the point of dishonesty. Wow, for a guy that won’t accept cites, you’re cure quick to buy into the truth of that comment. Apart from that unsupported claim, can anyone cite proof that PP does actually pay for women to get mammograms elsewhere? I don’t regard referrals as “providing.” And I do regard Kyl’s statement as clear hyperbole. But this is the distinction: Kyl is not allowed to commit hyperbole. He’s held to the literal claim. Boxer’s allowed to be hyperbolic, to make slips of the tongue, any interpretation that might save her. Kyl’s considered to be under oath with an admonition to tell the whole and nothing but the truth wihout embellishment; Boxer’s considered to be telling us a story with interpretive dance, or something. You seriously don’t see how different the standards are? Of COURSE Boxer isn’t lying. But neither was Kyl. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/37 "2011-04-12T18:44:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s actually an accurate example of a service that PP privides access and funding for. Boxer didn’t say they did them at the clinics, so you essentially don’t have a “lie” here. “Access” That means they give out the phone number of the actual mammogram provider. What do you think they’re doing, giving out a secret password? They’re giving out information that’s in the phone book under ‘M.’ ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/38 "2011-04-12T18:45:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wow, for a guy that won’t accept cites, you’re cure quick to buy into the truth of that comment. > > Apart from that unsupported claim, can anyone cite proof that PP does actually pay for women to get mammograms elsewhere? > > I don’t regard referrals as “providing.” > > And I do regard Kyl’s statement as clear hyperbole. > > But this is the distinction: Kyl is not allowed to commit hyperbole. He’s held to the literal claim. > > Boxer’s allowed to be hyperbolic, to make slips of the tongue, any interpretation that might save her. Kyl’s considered to be under oath with an admonition to tell the whole and nothing but the truth wihout embellishment; Boxer’s considered to be telling us a story with interpretive dance, or something. > > You seriously don’t see how different the standards are? > > Of COURSE Boxer isn’t lying. > > But neither was Kyl. Pathetic. You have not an ounce of honesty, integrity or decency left in your wretched head. Keep fucking that chicken, Bricker. KFtC. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/39 "2011-04-12T18:47:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Pathetic. You have not an ounce of honesty, integrity or decency left in your wretched head. Keep fucking that chicken, Bricker. KFtC. Does it bother you to be one of the most idiotic posters here, or do you sort of take it in stride? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116/40 "2011-04-12T18:48:54Z")
I just cited a quote from a PP spokesperson saying that PP does provide assistance to poor women to get mammograms. Boxer wasn’t hyperbolic, and had no slip of the tongue. Everything she said was factually accurate. Mammograms are, in fact, one of the services that PP “provides” in every meaningful sense. Kyl was simply lying. It wasn’t hyperbole. Exaggerating from 3% to 90% is not hyperbole. That makes no sense as hyperbole. Hyperbole would be somethink like calling PP clinics “abortion mills” or accusing them of “genocide,” or some of the other nonsense the pro-lifers say. Grossly inflating a statistic is not hyperbole, it’s lying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-boxer-d-ca-lies-and-doesnt-even-admit-it/578116.md?page=3)