# Senator Frist wants Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211 "2003-06-29T20:04:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/141 "2003-07-01T20:59:37Z")
> [@](#): > > _gobear said:_ When the time comes, I expect you to thoroughly bitch out the people who rejoice over the deaths of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Um, you forgot Hitler. Sure, he’s already dead, but as long as you’re gonna wax hyperbolic, you might as well throw in the obligatory Nazi reference. An easy oversight to make. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/142 "2003-07-01T20:59:50Z")
**Captain Amazing** , one of the dictionaries compiled through [www.dictionary.com](http://www.dictionary.com) tracked ‘marriage’ back further to a word meaning ‘husband’, which tracks back to a word just meaning ‘man’. I tried to go back through the OED for confirmation on this, but at the moment I’m too brain-fuzzy to pull etymological information out of it through links. (My access to the OED online is a little circuitous at best.) ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/143 "2003-07-01T21:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*While I am not defending **Mockingbird’s** style, I have to correct you on one matter: his posts do not harm our cause. Justice is based on the equality of all people under the law, not on the qualification that we be “nice.” If we deprived people the protection of the law just because they can be jerks, we’d have a new slave class made up of NFL coaches, Republican politicians, Enron executives, and Martha Stewart. > > Citizens are entitled to equality because it is their birthright as human beings, not because you approve of them. \*\* Well, his posts do nothing for your cause, and the opponents read his crap and get PO’d, which can be transfered over to other members of his cause unjustly. So in that definition he does hurt your cause in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/144 "2003-07-01T21:00:31Z")
> [@](#): > > i wouldn’t like you but i wiould take no joy in your death. and who is calling you a bigot? You and yours are the ones labeling me with the now almost meaningless term based solely on my objections to how you treat a dead man. I’m just pointing out your behavior is just as hateful, and maybe moreso since you are using your right to exist (the very thing you fight for) as an excuse to be hateful You continue to miss the point; he hated us because of who we are, and we hate him because of what he did. He **merited** contempt for his hateful actions. You continue to act as if Strom never hurt anyone. The day I pass a law to deprive old, ignorant white men of their rights to marry or to be employed, then you can say I’m as bad as he was. Until then, you’re talking nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/145 "2003-07-01T21:07:27Z")
Why is it hyperbolic, **Archiveguy**? **Tars Tarkas** has explicitly laid down the principle that one must never be glad of anyone’s death, no matter how vile. Granted, I provided some extreme examples, but the principle is still the same–if I cannot smile at Strom’s passing, then nobody who has criticized me had better say one word against bin Laden, Hussein, or Hitler for that matter. Hitler may have sent some gay people to their deaths in Auchwitz, Treblinka, and Dachau, but I’m sure they were just the rude ones who had it coming. Right, **Tars**? > [@](#): > > Well, his posts do nothing for your cause, and the opponents read his crap and get PO’d, which can be transfered over to other members of his cause unjustly. So in that definition he does hurt your cause in my opinion. People who think that sloppily are not likely to be our friends, no matter how sweetly we post. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/146 "2003-07-01T21:09:46Z")
Hmmm… _Righteous indignation over a lifetime of discriminatory politics_ vs. _Respect for the dead_ Priorities, priorities… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/147 "2003-07-01T21:13:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > Hitler may have sent some gay people to their deaths in Auchwitz, Treblinka, and Dachau, but I’m sure they were just the rude ones who had it coming. Right, **Tars**? > \*\* Have you stopped beating your unable to marry husband? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/148 "2003-07-01T21:15:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Have you stopped beating your unable to marry husband? Hey, you’re the one who implied that human rights are predicated on one’s politeness. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/149 "2003-07-01T21:30:38Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Tars Tarkas** _ > > Well, his posts do nothing for your cause, and the opponents read his crap and get PO’d, which can be transfered over to other members of his cause unjustly. So in that definition he does hurt your cause in my opinion. Wow. I think I’ll just patiently wait while those who jumped all over me for [besmirching all straight men when one does something stupid](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=188095) jump all over you for doing the same thing to us gay guys. (Frankly, I understand what you’re saying, but forgive me for being a little self-serving for a moment.) Esprix ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/150 "2003-07-01T22:11:29Z")
I notice that this week’s _Onion_ has the sidebar headline, “Strom Thurmond Finally, Finally Dies.” I trust that **Tars Tarkas** , **Scylla** and company will write them a stern letter of rebuke for not writing a serious, moving tribute to the late hero of the republic. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/151 "2003-07-01T22:21:47Z")
No, no, **gobear** - that’s _parody_. They don’t really _mean_ it like we do. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/152 "2003-07-01T22:44:56Z")
[Hillary Clinton on WNYC](http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2003_06_15_dish_archive.html#10562172963670667) 6/18/2003 w/Brian Lehrer: > [@](#): > > Marriage means something different. You know, **marriage has a meaning that I think should be kept as it historically has been** , but I see no reason whatsoever why people in committed relationships can’t have, you know, many\*\*\*\*\* of the same rights and the same, you know, respect for their unions that they are seeking and I would like to see that be more accepted than it is…First of all, I think that it is unlikely, if not impossible, to be something (in the context of same-sex marriage) nationally accepted in our country, but I also think that we can realize the same results for may committed couples by urging that states and localities adopt civil union and domestic partnership laws. \*_many_…not _all_, mind you (Claiming he was taken out of context) Reuters quoted (and never retracted) [John Kerry in 1998](http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=3036)as saying > [@](#): > > “(Gay people) are not parents by definition. They are parents by law but they’re not parents by biology.” When pointing out he was misquoted and was commenting on child care legislation, Sen. Kerry issued a clarification stating “I deeply regret any misunderstanding which might arise from this misquote. I have not and will not change my position that gay people in this country deserve all the rights that are afforded to every American. I hope that all supporters of gay civil rights judge me by my votes and deeds and not spurious comments attributed to me.” ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/153 "2003-07-01T22:53:43Z")
Well I don’t think anyone’s ever doubted that there are morons on any side of the political fence. I’m not always thrilled about being in the same party as Hillary, but she’s a damn sight better than a lot of other politicians out there, at least for my purposes. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/154 "2003-07-01T22:56:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > **Why?** Because we’re dealing with what amounts to civic recognition of a religious institution (or at least, it is perceived as such). Seeing as so many religions take a dim view of homosexuality, I can understand how some would bristle at terming gay unions “marriage.” It seems to me that using a different term while extending the same civic benefits makes the fewest number of people unhappy: gays get the equal treatment they so richly deserve while religious conservatives can plausibly claim the state isn’t making a moral equivelancy between the homosexual and heterosexual unions. It’s a good compromise where everyone basically wins. **gobear** : There’s a difference between gallows humor and glee at someone’s death. I don’t read that _Onion_ sidebar as “boy I’m glad Thurmon died,” but rather “geez, I can’t believe he lived so friggin’ long.” YMMV. You’ll note I didn’t criticize **Eve** for similar gallows humor regarding Katharine Hepburn’s death. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/155 "2003-07-01T22:58:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > Well I don’t think anyone’s ever doubted that there are morons on any side of the political fence. I’m not always thrilled about being in the same party as Hillary, but she’s a damn **sight** better than a lot of other politicians out there, at least for my purposes… You knew someone would do [this](http://home.earthlink.net/~dare2b/hillary.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/156 "2003-07-01T23:11:58Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Dewey Cheatem Undhow** _ > > It seems to me that using a different term while extending the same civic benefits makes the fewest number of people unhappy… So, you’re suggesting separate but equal? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/157 "2003-07-01T23:44:23Z")
Of course, a rather simple solution would be to legally redefine it as a “Civil Union” for EVERYONE - gay and straight. Why does the government even need to use the term “marriage”? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/158 "2003-07-01T23:54:42Z")
I think **RickJay** has the right idea. Government can’t get completely out of the “marriage” business, per se, given all the rules and regulations about property, power of attorney, child care, and everything else. However, government _can_ say, “Look, we’re going to manage all of this under one heading, ‘Legal Joining.’ If you want your church to label that a marriage, that’s fine. We don’t care. From now on, though, it’s going to say ‘Legally Joined’ on your tax form.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/159 "2003-07-02T00:03:26Z")
An entirely sensible solution, elegant, rational, simple. Hence, doomed. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211/160 "2003-07-02T00:09:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*So, you’re suggesting separate but equal? \*\* Spare me. I’m not saying gays should head to the back of the bus (or marriage license bureau, or whatever). It’s a friggin’ label for cryin’ out loud. Who cares what it’s called so long as you and your S.O. get all the benefits you’ve been yearning after? It’s comments like this that make me think you’re less interested in improving the way society treats gay people and more interested in sticking it to social conservatives. I mean, really: if you could tangibly improve the lives of thousands of your gay brethren with a fairly benign compromise, you’d throw it all away over a goddamned name? **RickJay** ’s idea solves the problem, but is most likely politically impossible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-frist-wants-constitutional-amendment-banning-gay-marriage/185211.md?page=9)