# Senator Johnson ill - Here come da Pubs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048 "2006-12-14T00:47:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/21 "2006-12-14T10:53:40Z")
[QUOTE=flurb] Democrat Zell Miller [/QUOTE] Make that DINO Zell Miller. First of all, let’s hope he recovers. I’m sure his family must be going through a very difficult time. If he doesn’t, then the SD Supreme Court has their hands full. No, the Governor is not ethically obligated to pick a Democrat, nor would he do so. That’s the breaks of the game. On the bright side, if such a thing occurs and the Republicans take control, the Dems can tell Lieberman to go suck eggs. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/22 "2006-12-14T11:02:25Z")
[Here’s CNN’s story as of 5:26am](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/12/14/johnson.ill/index.html): > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (CNN) – Sen. Tim Johnson of South Dakota underwent brain surgery early Thursday at George Washington University Hospital after suffering stroke-like symptoms, two Democratic sources familiar with his condition told CNN. > > Johnson, 59, was taken to the hospital Wednesday after he appeared to suffer the stroke-like symptoms, although a spokeswoman for the senator said subsequent evaluation showed he did not suffer a stroke or a heart attack. > > There was no word early Thursday on the nature of Johnson’s surgery or his condition. > > Staffers told CNN that Johnson was conscious when he was transported to the hospital. An [ER Doc speculates in his blog](http://allbleedingstops.blogspot.com/2006/12/reading-tea-leaves.html): > [@](#): > > This is always a maddening part of being a medical professional. Give me 30 seconds with the chart and I can tell you in exact detail what the situation (or at least the differential diagnosis) is. But the vague and contradictory reports, frequently written by media writers not familiar with medicine can be tough to interpret in the best of cases. > > Here’s my attempt at reading between the lines: > > 1. Senator Johnson had an episode of difficulty speaking, evidenced by stuttering and apparent word-finding difficulty. Audible here via CNN. This does clearly point to an acute central nervous system process such as an ischemic stroke causing expressive aphasia. > > 2. His condition “appeared to recover” to the extent that he was able to ask if there were any additional questions before ending the call. The neurologic deficit was mild and short-lived. This argues against a persistent structural lesion such as hemorrhagic stroke or tumor. The absence of complaint of headache further argues against such diagnoses. > > 3. However, after initial improvement, another problem developed: “[He] was able to walk back to his office in the Hart Senate Office Building, then began having problems with his right arm. He thought he was all right, she said, and went to his desk, but came out a few minutes later and it was apparent he needed help.” The language symptoms having resolved, he developed new symptoms of a motor nature. The language centers (often called “Broca’s area”) are typically in the left brain, in the same vascular distribution as the left motor cortex, which controls movement of the right arm. Again, this is consistent with cerebral ischemia, though the intermittent nature of the symptoms and variable type of symptomology suggest transient ischemia (often called TIA or mini-stroke) versus true cerebral infarction, aka stroke. > > \ > > Given the information at hand, I suspect that the Senator had either a TIA or possibly a mild stroke, and underwent carotid endarterectomy. This would imply that his illness might be mild enough to allow him to serve out his term, at the least, and make a full recovery, at the best. It is always possible, and alas, too common, that early media report are inaccurate or incomplete, so I would not hold this estimate out as definitive. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/23 "2006-12-14T11:51:01Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Though I think the question is moot (from what I’ve read I expect Johnson to make a full recovery…and am glad of it), I’d have to say that I DO think the Governor has an ethical responsibility to appoint someone from the same party. I don’t think that would happen (in fact, I’d bet the farm that it won’t, regardless of what party we were talking about in this scenerio)…but the voters in the state had spoken and I think that it would be wise to heed them. And I think that doing so would be a HUGE boost the the Governor in question…just boat loads of kudos IMHO. -XT [/QUOTE] What if the Gov thought that he acquired his seat by, let’s just say… voter fraud on Indian Reservations, would he then have an ethical responsibility to appoint a Republican? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/24 "2006-12-14T14:14:01Z")
I think the Republican governor is under no obligation to pick a Republican. However, if this should happen, I think there would be an interesting scenario where one of the Maine Republicans would consider pulling a Jeffords and becoming independent and returning control with the Dems. Collins or Snowe could name their price and still easily be reelected as an independent. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/25 "2006-12-14T14:15:05Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] I think the Republican governor is under no obligation to pick a Republican. [/QUOTE] Make that pick a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/26 "2006-12-14T14:53:14Z")
[Update on Johnson’s condition](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061214/ap_on_go_co/johnson): > [@](#): > > Johnson suffered from bleeding in the brain caused by a congenital arteriovenous malformation, the U.S. Capitol physician said, describing the surgery as successful. The condition, present at birth, causes tangled blood vessels. > > “The senator is recovering without complication,” the physician, Adm. John Eisold, said. “It is premature to determine whether further surgery will be required or to assess any long-term prognosis.” > > Eisold said doctors had to drain the blood that had accumulated in Johnson’s brain and stop continued bleeding. > > Johnson’s condition, also known as AVM, causes arteries and veins to grow abnormally large and become tangled. > > The senator’s wife, Barbara Johnson, said the family “is encouraged and optimistic.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/27 "2006-12-14T15:24:33Z")
[NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/14/washington/14senate.html?_r=1&ei=5094&en=86d5d2e95859ea0d&hp=&ex=1166072400&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&partner=homepage&adxnnlx=1166108479-xAGKL/Yca76et0UAp3yKWQ): > [@](#): > > According to information from the Senate historian cited on [CQ.com](http://CQ.com), at least nine senators have taken extended absences from the Senate for health reasons since 1942. Robert F. Wagner, Democrat of New York, was unable to attend any sessions of the 80th or 81st Congress from 1947 to 1949 because of a heart ailment. Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democrat of Delaware, missed about seven months in 1988 after surgery for a brain aneurysm. And David Pryor, Democrat of Arkansas, suffered a heart attack in April 1991 and returned to the Senate in September that year. [MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16191212/): > [@](#): > > The Senate historian’s office cites several examples of a senator being incapacitated for years and remaining in office. > > Most recently, Sen. Karl Mundt (coincidentally, also from South Dakota) suffered a stroke in 1969 and was incapacitated, but he refused to step down. He remained in office until January 1973, when his term expired. Mundt was pressured repeatedly to step down during his illness, but he demanded that the governor promise to appoint his wife. The governor refused, and Mundt remained in office. > > Another example was Sen. Carter Glass, D-Va. Glass had a heart condition that prevented him from working for most of his last term after his re-election in 1942. Yet Glass refused to resign, and finally died of congestive heart failure in May 1946, in his apartment at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington. So the precedent seems to be that there’s no vacancy unless Johnson dies or resigns, or perhaps if the Senate, using its powers under Article I, Section 5 to determine the qualifications for its own membership, decides to declare him unqualified due to incapacitation. But since the Senate, minus Johnson, is 50-49 Dem (assuming Lieberman take advantage of the moment), they would probably feel forced to do that only if Johnson’s incapacitation were clearly permanent. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/28 "2006-12-14T15:25:55Z")
That shoulda been “assuming Lieberman **doesn’t** take advantage of the moment”. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/29 "2006-12-14T15:26:24Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Should the Republican governor of South Dakota _ethically_ have to appoint a Democrat to replace a Democrat? [/QUOTE] Yes. The voters voted a Democrat, they should get a Democrat if (God forbid) Johnson dies. ivylass, registered Republican ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/30 "2006-12-14T15:27:17Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Though I think the question is moot (from what I’ve read I expect Johnson to make a full recovery…and am glad of it), I’d have to say that I DO think the Governor has an ethical responsibility to appoint someone from the same party. I don’t think that would happen (in fact, I’d bet the farm that it won’t, regardless of what party we were talking about in this scenerio)…but the voters in the state had spoken and I think that it would be wise to heed them. And I think that doing so would be a HUGE boost the the Governor in question…just boat loads of kudos IMHO. -XT [/QUOTE] I don’t understand the logic here. Yes the voters spoke, they elected a Republican governor. If they wanted the Democrat then they should have elected him. There is absolutely no ethical responsibility for the governor to appoint a democrat. It is his ethical responibility to fill that seat with the most quailfied person he can find. As a republican I would assume that someone who thinks along the same lines as him would fit the bill. The voters elected the governor because they trusted his judgement. It’s up to him to meet those responibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/31 "2006-12-14T15:29:41Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] Yes. The voters voted a Democrat, they should get a Democrat if (God forbid) Johnson dies. ivylass, registered Republican [/QUOTE] They didn’t vote for democrat. They voted for Johnson. If he is not available the governor should appoint who he thinks is best for the job. The voters have spoken, they gave someone the reponsibility to make that decision. In this case they gave it to a republican. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/32 "2006-12-14T15:31:59Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] What if the Gov thought that he acquired his seat by, let’s just say… voter fraud on Indian Reservations, would he then have an ethical responsibility to appoint a Republican? [/QUOTE] Thinks…or has iron clad proof? If the gov KNOWS the election was stolen, then his ethical responsibility is to do what he thinks is best…to appoint the best candidate to the best of his abilities. [QUOTE=Loach] I don’t understand the logic here. Yes the voters spoke, they elected a Republican governor. If they wanted the Democrat then they should have elected him. There is absolutely no ethical responsibility for the governor to appoint a democrat. It is his ethical responibility to fill that seat with the most quailfied person he can find. As a republican I would assume that someone who thinks along the same lines as him would fit the bill. The voters elected the governor because they trusted his judgement. It’s up to him to meet those responibilities. [/QUOTE] Well, YMMV. For my part I think that ETHICALLY, a gov in this position should choose what s/he consideres the best candidate from a list of candidates from the party the senator originally came from. Surely there is SOMEONE from the opposing party a gov. could respect and select? We are talking ethics here…not political reality, or the responsiblity of the gov to his party. If the home folks chose a Democrat (or a Republican) then I think ETHICALLY the gov should attempt to choose a new candidate from a selection of people from that original party. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/33 "2006-12-14T15:44:38Z")
Agreed. And isn’t this “appointment by Governor” wrinkle rather like the Electoral College, a remnant of an earlier time when elections were vastly more burdensome and complicated? My understanding is that S. Dak has roads, telephones, and even some internet tubes! That said, if the SD Gov takes one for the Party by appointing a Pubbie, he must be expecting a rather fulsome political payback. SD voters are fiesty and unpredictable, they may very well resent having their judgement “overturned” for partisan reasons. And he would be well advised to consider the case of Katherine Harris… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/34 "2006-12-14T15:49:27Z")
One possible scenario, in the event that Johnson should prove to be permanently too incapacitated to serve: The Senate Dems (still in a 50-49 majority, with the right to determine Senatorial qualifications) could do a straightforward deal with the SD Gov: vote to declare a vacancy only if the Gov agreed to appoint Rep. Stephanie Herseth (D-SD) to Sen. Johnson’s seat. That would keep the Senate in Dem hands, but give the GOP a shot at SD’s sole House seat as a consolation prize. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/35 "2006-12-14T15:56:49Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] For my part I think that ETHICALLY, a gov in this position should choose what s/he consideres the best candidate from a list of candidates from the party the senator originally came from. Surely there is SOMEONE from the opposing party a gov. could respect and select? [/QUOTE] Tom Daschle springs to mind. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/36 "2006-12-14T16:07:13Z")
From _The Nation’s_ [website,](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=148235) 12/14/06: > [@](#): > > . . . If Johnson is incapacitated, South Dakota Governor Mike Rounds, a partisan Republican perhaps best known for signing the most draconian anti-abortion law in the land, will be able to appoint a Republican to replace the Democratic senator. > > Rounds has a track record of using appointments to gain partisan advantage. In 2002, after a Democratic member of the South Dakota state senate died, the governor put a Republican in his place. > > The appointment by Rounds of a Republican to Johnson’s seat would saddle the Senate with a 5O-5O split. That would give President Dick Cheney, who as the chamber’s presiding officer is empowered to break ties, the authority to hand control to the GOP. > > Cheney will do so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/37 "2006-12-14T16:08:19Z")
Well, if he’s all done being a Republican… The squeels of porcine rage would be audible on Mars. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/38 "2006-12-14T16:33:26Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Well, YMMV. For my part I think that ETHICALLY, a gov in this position should choose what s/he consideres the best candidate from a list of candidates from the party the senator originally came from. Surely there is SOMEONE from the opposing party a gov. could respect and select? [/QUOTE] Well, if the people of South Dakota wanted a replacement Senator to be of the same party, they were free to require such (as is the case in Alaska, Arizona and Hawaii). The exact same proposal made here, to have the replacement chosen from a list generated by the replaced Senator’s party, is employed in Utah and Wyoming. Alternatively, they could have required an immediate special election with no interim appointment (Oregon and Wisconsin). [Cite. (PDF)](http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/pdf/Vacancies.pdf) The Seventeenth Amendment gives state legislatures vast leeway to set the conditions for how an unexpected Senate vacancy will be filled – or if it will be filled at all. South Dakotans, through their elected representatives in the state legislature, chose to give the governor full discretion in how to make that appointment. You can certainly still argue that the Governor is ethically obliged to appoint a Democrat, but I think that position loses some steam when the legislature could have made it a requirement and failed to do so. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/39 "2006-12-14T16:49:17Z")
[QUOTE=flurb] You can certainly still argue that the Governor is ethically obliged to appoint a Democrat, but I think that position loses some steam when the legislature could have made it a requirement and failed to do so. [/QUOTE] I personally think it’s silly to read much intent into a failure to anticipate all consequences of a rarely-occuring situation when writing legislation to deal with it. Not only do Senate seats rarely have mid-term vacancies, but it really wouldn’t matter nearly as much to anyone if the SD Gov replaced Johnson with a Republican if the incoming Dems didn’t have a 51-49 majority. I doubt the SD Legislature had this possibility foremost in their minds when they were rewriting this part of the state code back in 1979. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/40 "2006-12-14T17:02:49Z")
The governor can ethically appoint anyone of any party, as long as the governor feels the person is qualified for the position. And the contention that the SD legislature WOULD have put a provision that the governor must choose a member of the incapacitated senator’s party, if only they had thought of it, is simply ludicrous. Several states have such a provision. By South Dakota law, the governor can choose who he likes, and his sole responsibility is to his own constituents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048.md?page=3)