# Senator Johnson ill - Here come da Pubs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048 "2006-12-14T00:47:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/61 "2006-12-15T01:17:23Z")
It’s disgusting that \*this \* is what has dominated discussion of the poor man’s problem, within much less than 24 hours of the occurrence. He just might recover, ya know, disappointing though that may be to some - and he’ll be able to tell who at the time was thinking of partisan advantage and who was thinking about _him and his family_. Which of you is in which category? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/62 "2006-12-15T01:24:20Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] It’s disgusting that \*this \* is what has dominated discussion of the poor man’s problem, within much less than 24 hours of the occurrence. He just might recover, ya know, disappointing though that may be to some - and he’ll be able to tell who at the time was thinking of partisan advantage and who was thinking about _him and his family_. Which of you is in which category? [/QUOTE] Good point, and I was thinking along those lines watching some of the news coverage earlier. The guy looks a lot younger than his 59 years, too (not that 59 is particularly old). Let’s hope he has a full recovery. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/63 "2006-12-15T02:12:05Z")
Just a point of clarification, though. I think it’s a “good point” that there is a conspicuous lack of sympathy being shown in this thread, but I didn’t detect any blatant partisanship so far. Unless I missed something…? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/64 "2006-12-15T02:37:26Z")
Well, this thread isn’t about his health, it’s about the political implications thereof, and I’m certain nobody here or anywhere wishes him ill. This isn’t the only discussion of Sen. Johnson on the Dope, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/65 "2006-12-15T02:45:24Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] It’s disgusting that \*this \* is what has dominated discussion of the poor man’s problem, within much less than 24 hours of the occurrence. He just might recover, ya know, disappointing though that may be to some - and he’ll be able to tell who at the time was thinking of partisan advantage and who was thinking about _him and his family_. Which of you is in which category? [/QUOTE] His illness does not exist in a vacuum. While sympathy for him is certainly appropriate, it is equally appropriate to discuss the implications of it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/66 "2006-12-15T02:50:36Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] That’s a pretty crappy consolation prize: Republicans might weaken the 30-seat Democratic majority in the House slightly, in exchange for giving up a chance to keep control of the Senate? Not a chance in hell. And you can quote me on that. [/QUOTE] Depends: who’s dealing with whom? On one side of the deal: the Senate Dems. On the other side: the SD Gov, who’s the head of the SD GOP. Sidelined: the national GOP and the SD Dems. It’s a good deal for both parties to the deal, it’s a lousy deal for one of the sidelined parties, and a not so good deal (but not terrible either) for the other sidelined party. But it’s like if four of us are playing Monopoly, and two players reach a trade so that both of them get new monopolies that they’re ready to load up with hotels. It’s great for both of them, and it sucked to be the other two. But the other two didn’t get a say in the matter. That’s life in the big city. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/67 "2006-12-15T02:50:47Z")
Not _exclusively_, Frank. But that’s what this thread has been - not a damn word of sympathy from anybody, only the partisan political implications (the word has a broader meaning, John), and speculatively at that. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/68 "2006-12-15T02:53:31Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I don’t follow you. [Senators die in office on a regular basis.](http://politicalgraveyard.com/offices/pdio5.html) It happened eight times in the 1970s, leading up to that 1979 revision of the code. [/QUOTE] You apparently knew what I was talking about earlier: > [@spoke-](#): > > The situation isn’t that rare.. It’s already happened twice this decade. > > When Republican Senator Paul Coverdell of Georgia died, Democratic Governor Roy Barnes appointed “Democrat” Zell Miller to replace him. (Of course, Zell Miller made a hard-right lurch and became a virtual Republican when he got into the Senate, but Barnes had no way of knowing that would happen. Zell had been a progressive Democrat when he served as governor.) > Reply With Quote I _assumed_ you meant deaths that could affect control of the Senate. Maybe I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/69 "2006-12-15T02:55:46Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Not _exclusively_, Frank. But that’s what this thread has been - not a damn word of sympathy from anybody, only the partisan political implications (the word has a broader meaning, John), and speculatively at that. [/QUOTE] What **else** could or should there be? None of us **know** the man or even heard of him before. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/70 "2006-12-15T02:56:54Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Well, this thread isn’t about his health, it’s about the political implications thereof, and I’m certain nobody here or anywhere wishes him ill. [/QUOTE] I do not share your certainty, nor should any rational citizen or Doper. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/71 "2006-12-15T02:58:14Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Not _exclusively_, Frank. But that’s what this thread has been - not a damn word of sympathy from anybody, only the partisan political implications (the word has a broader meaning, John), and speculatively at that. [/QUOTE] This forum is not, last time I looked, MPSIMS. I didn’t start a sympathy thread; I started a thread for political discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/72 "2006-12-15T03:06:07Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] On one side of the deal: the Senate Dems. On the other side: the SD Gov, who’s the head of the SD GOP. Sidelined: the national GOP and the SD Dems. It’s a good deal for both parties to the deal, it’s a lousy deal for one of the sidelined parties, and a not so good deal (but not terrible either) for the other sidelined party. [/QUOTE] I repeat, how does this deal benefit Rounds? He guarantees a Democratic majority in the Senate, and has only a slight chance of weakening a very strong Democratic majority in the House. He might possibly gain a little political capital, but I doubt that would help him much in 2010, and you’re not addressing that issue, AFAICT. The Republican Party has no reasonable chance to gain in this deal, and Rounds is a loyal party follower. Trading a Senator who affects the balance for a Representative who could not make a real difference even if that seat went to his party (which, as I said before, is very unlikely) is a terrible idea for Rounds and the GOP in general. There’s nothing I can see that Democrats can offer Rounds to make him appoint a Democratic Senator: they don’t have the power, apart from possibly some legislation that might affect SD, which again is not what you’re addressing, to give him anything he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/73 "2006-12-15T03:06:16Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Depends: who’s dealing with whom? On one side of the deal: the Senate Dems. On the other side: the SD Gov, who’s the head of the SD GOP. Sidelined: the national GOP and the SD Dems. It’s a good deal for both parties to the deal, it’s a lousy deal for one of the sidelined parties, and a not so good deal (but not terrible either) for the other sidelined party. But it’s like if four of us are playing Monopoly, and two players reach a trade so that both of them get new monopolies that they’re ready to load up with hotels. It’s great for both of them, and it sucked to be the other two. But the other two didn’t get a say in the matter. That’s life in the big city. [/QUOTE] I really doubt it, RT. Rumor bespeaks that Rounds would _really_ like to flight up to the Senate in 2008 anyway. This complicates matters in a couple of ways. 1. Cut a deal with the National Democrats and see just how made he’s made the RNC and NO funding for him. 2. If he appoints a Republican to the slot he’s dead in the water as far as getting to run for that seat in 2008 goes. Whomever that appointee is will be the candidate-presumptive for the full term in 2008. Rounds won’t want that to happen. 3. Maybe he can cut a deal with _Lt Governor Daugaard_. Rounds resigns, Daugaard moves up and appoints **Rounds** to the gig. Senate flips, Daugaard gets promoted, Rounds gets his Senator slot, RNC happy with him and gives him money for reelection in 2008. I’m just sayin’, is all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/74 "2006-12-15T04:34:42Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Not _exclusively_, Frank. But that’s what this thread has been - not a damn word of sympathy from anybody, only the partisan political implications (the word has a broader meaning, John), and speculatively at that. [/QUOTE] There’s nothing partisan about simply asking what will happen. It’s a legitimate question, and I don’t see any rah rah go Dems/Pubs going on. It’s interesting how words always have broader meanings when you use them, but not when others do… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/75 "2006-12-15T14:57:02Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Not _exclusively_, Frank. But that’s what this thread has been - not a damn word of sympathy from anybody, only the partisan political implications (the word has a broader meaning, John), and speculatively at that. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t say that: [QUOTE=me, post 21] First of all, let’s hope he recovers. I’m sure his family must be going through a very difficult time. [/QUOTE] Of course, most of us hadn’t heard of the man before and know little about him. And if it was say 55-45 for one party or the other, there wouldn’t be nearly as much fuss. There might be some debate over whether an incapacitated Senator should remain in office but otherwise it wouldn’t generate a ripple. That his possible death/resignation would flip the control of the chamber is the story and of course that’s what we’re all worried about. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/76 "2006-12-15T16:08:13Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I do not share your certainty, nor should any rational citizen or Doper. [/QUOTE] Right, because we know Republicans are evil, and therefore hoping he dies for immediate political advantage. I’m amazed people on this board still take you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/77 "2006-12-15T16:18:50Z")
[QUOTE=John Corrado] Right, because we know Republicans are evil, and therefore hoping he dies for immediate political advantage. [/QUOTE] I was basing that impression on the Free Republic thread linked in post #19. Most posters are earnestly praying for Johnson’s recovery, but **at the same time**. . . well, let’s say there’s a definite whiff of crocodile tears. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/78 "2006-12-15T16:25:52Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I was basing that impression on the Free Republic thread linked in post #19. Most posters are earnestly praying for Johnson’s recovery, but **at the same time**. . . well, let’s say there’s a definite whiff of crocodile tears. [/QUOTE] Is there? Where? Show me. All I’m seeing in the thread you’re referencing (Post #18, BTW; post #19 is DU) is people offering prayers, condolensces, well wishing to the family, and less speculation on “what this means” than has shown up even here. If you see “crocodile tears”, it’s because you’re such a biased partisan that you refuse to be willing to ascribe human emotions to your opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/79 "2006-12-15T16:25:58Z")
Crocodile tears are smelly? Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048/80 "2006-12-15T18:44:50Z")
[QUOTE=John Corrado] Is there? Where? Show me. All I’m seeing in the thread you’re referencing (Post #18, BTW; post #19 is DU) is people offering prayers, condolensces, well wishing to the family, and less speculation on “what this means” than has shown up even here. [/QUOTE] That’s why I called it an “impression,” based on reading between the lines – not strong enough to form a basis for excoriating the evil Pubs (we have many **much** better grounds for that), but enough to justify some small degree of skepticism re the certainy **Captain Carrot** expressed in post #68; especially as that certainty encompassed “here or anywhere.” E.g., I very much doubt Karl Rove or Dick Cheney are praying for Johnson’s recovery and would not be surprised one bit if they are offering up a very, very different prayer (just not in public). Ditto Pat Robertson and many like him – not all, not most, but many. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-johnson-ill-here-come-da-pubs/384048.md?page=5)