# Senator Lindsay Graham (R - SC) on Meet the Press: This is World War III **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 4, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540 "2007-03-04T15:50:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/1 "2007-03-04T15:50:47Z")
Just this morning: Russert: How much time do you give General Petraeus? Graham: Whatever resources he needs, and whatever time he needs, he’s gonna get. How much time did we have to win World War II? Did we ever think about just fighting the Germans, and not engaging the Japanese? This, to me, is World War III. This is a central battlfront in a global struggle against terrorism. Moderates are fighting extremists in Lebanon. They’re fighting extremists in Palestine. They’re fighting extremists in Afghanistan. They’re fighting extremists in Iraq. It is my belief that our longterm national security interest is to stand with moderates, as imperfect as they are, wherever we can find them, and say no to the extremists. Russert: But Iraq is Sunnis fighting Shiites. Who’s the extremist?And that excerpt is a nutshell of how the whole interview went. Russert would ask a question, and Graham would make a speech. But this small tidbit snapped tendons in my eyeballs as they rolled back in my head. Just so you know, Senator, the time we had to win World War II was less than the time we’ve taken to lose what is apparently World War III. And if this really is World War III, then I must say that I’m sorely disappointed. I was expecting something more, I dunno, apocolyptic I guess. I mean, if not the return of Christ in the clouds, at the very least rivers of human blood and molten steel emptying into a Sea of Dispair. You know, the fall of civilization. Maybe it stems from my childhood, squeezing my knees against my chin under the desk as we pretended that the sky was melting from Soviet nukes. But I am terribly chagrined to know that World War III has consisted of nothing more than car bombs in Bagdad and molotov cocktails in Palestine. Shouldn’t we at least have Saudi Arabia in there? And maybe Turkey? With, you know, actual armies deployed in theater? I guess not. I’m not a politician, and so I don’t know these things. Anyway, thanks for nothing. This has been the Millard Fillmore of Word Wars, and I for one am unimpressed. Now I know how cultists feel the day after the world was supposed to end. I guess we just have to get on with life. I’m going to run to the gas station before the oil companies hear your announcement. I frankly don’t think this World War has been worth an extra ten cents on the gallon, and I’m filling up before I have to pay it. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/2 "2007-03-04T16:26:59Z")
Darn odd World War. No Victory Tax, no fuel rationing, no draft, no mobilization. Nobody even seems to be studying Arabic. If you want to support the troops you can put a yellow ribbon on your SUV. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/3 "2007-03-04T16:46:08Z")
[QUOTE=Graham crackers] This, to me, is World War III. This is a central battlefront in a global struggle against terrorism. Moderates are fighting extremists in Lebanon. They’re fighting extremists in Palestine. [/QUOTE] Listen Mr., I know were you got that idea of all those countries being related to this struggle: it was back in the “happy days” of **2005** that “virgin combat boots” Bush remarked that because we forced democracy in Iraq that that was a great example to the ME: [http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/03/20050308-3.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/03/20050308-3.html) > [@](#): > > For all these reasons, the chances of democratic progress in the broader Middle East have seemed frozen in place for decades. Yet at last, clearly and suddenly, the thaw has begun. The people of Afghanistan have embraced free government, after suffering under one of the most backward tyrannies on earth. The voters in Iraq defied threats of murder, and have set their country on a path to full democracy. The people of the Palestinian Territories cast their ballots against violence and corruption of the past. And any who doubt the appeal of freedom in the Middle East can look to Lebanon, where the Lebanese people are demanding a free and independent nation. In the words of one Lebanese observer, “Democracy is knocking at the door of this country and, if it’s successful in Lebanon, it is going to ring the doors of every Arab regime.” Yeah, people of reason know now what kind of democratic “progress” we got in Lebanon and Palestine, but here is a hint to the path to WWIII followers: the radicals there gained power in no small part by pointing to the population how unfair, misleading, and morally criminal was our justification to go into Iraq and our actions after the invasion. To call what is happening in Iraq “progress” and tell other ME nations that that kind of “progress” should happen elsewhere in the ME is IMO worse than Bush’s “bring them on” taunt. ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/4 "2007-03-04T17:21:05Z")
It doesn’t _look_ like WWII, but I agree with the premise in abstract: we have been engaged by a geographically-diverse coalition of enemies, who have attacked us on several fronts. (which is not to say we’ve done anything right in Iraq) ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/5 "2007-03-04T17:49:22Z")
[QUOTE=Key Lime Guy] It doesn’t _look_ like WWII, but I agree with the premise in abstract: we have been engaged by a geographically-diverse coalition of enemies, who have attacked us on several fronts. (which is not to say we’ve done anything right in Iraq) [/QUOTE] I must have been asleep when Iraq attacked us. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/6 "2007-03-04T17:52:42Z")
I’m not so sure about the geographically diverse thing. It’s a couple of factions in a small part of a perpetually volatile region. It’s almost like calling two guys fighting in a bar on New Year’s eve a riot. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/7 "2007-03-04T17:57:50Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Darn odd World War. No Victory Tax, no fuel rationing, no draft, no mobilization. Nobody even seems to be studying Arabic. If you want to support the troops you can put a yellow ribbon on your SUV. [/QUOTE] Stick a yellow ribbon to your SUV Must support the troops In the Ar-my If I don’t see a ribbon on the SUV I’ll stay on the bus Forget about us Put the blame on Hil-ar-EEEEE If I don’t see a yellow ribbon on your SUV ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/8 "2007-03-04T18:03:50Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] If I don’t see a yellow ribbon on your SUV [/QUOTE] [Yellow Ribbons Is No Longer Teh Hotness](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/4793da48-c8f7-11db-9f7b-000b5df10621,_i_rssPage=6700d4e4-6714-11da-a650-0000779e2340.html) > [@](#): > > Magnet America, the largest manufacturer of the product, has seen sales fall from a peak of 1.2m in August 2004 to about 4,000 a month and now has an unsold stockpile of about 1m magnets. > … > On Ebay, the internet auction site, on Thursday, a black and white ribbon bearing the slogan “Out of Iraq, Bring ’Em Back” was priced at $5. > > Traditional yellow ribbon magnets, in contrast, could be bought for one cent. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/9 "2007-03-04T18:06:10Z")
Is Graham running for president? Where can I send him a check? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/10 "2007-03-04T18:12:09Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] [Yellow Ribbons Is No Longer Teh Hotness](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/4793da48-c8f7-11db-9f7b-000b5df10621,_i_rssPage=6700d4e4-6714-11da-a650-0000779e2340.html) [/QUOTE] Stick a black/white ribbon to your hybrid car Bring back the troops From where they are If I don’t see a ribbon on your hybrid car I’ll stay on the bus Forget about us Put the blame on all the Rs If I don’t see a black/white ribbon on your hybrid car ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/11 "2007-03-04T18:15:36Z")
Yeah, keep mocking those yellow ribbons. When the Prez gives us the order to throw them up into the air, and our magnetic yellow ribbon bubble shield is deployed, I think ya all will be singing a different tune! [QUOTE=Liberal] ..if this really is World War III, then I must say that I’m sorely disappointed. I was expecting something more, I dunno, apocolyptic I guess. I mean, if not the return of Christ in the clouds, at the very least rivers of human blood and molten steel emptying into a Sea of Dispair. You know, the fall of civilization… [/QUOTE] Fuckers just can’t get anything right! 😃 CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/12 "2007-03-04T18:16:27Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] Is Graham running for president? Where can I send him a check? [/QUOTE] A check? You can’t send a check. This is World War III. Banking has collapsed. The Lebanese Navy is patrolling the oceans. The skies of Europe are swarming with Afghani jets. Four divisions of Palestinian infantry have created choke points north and south of the Suez and Panama canals. It’s over. Buy gold and hide. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/13 "2007-03-04T18:58:48Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] A check? You can’t send a check. This is World War III. Banking has collapsed. The Lebanese Navy is patrolling the oceans. [/QUOTE] It’s worse than you think, a Lebanese just hosted the Oscars. ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/14 "2007-03-04T18:59:59Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I’m not so sure about the geographically diverse thing. It’s a couple of factions in a small part of a perpetually volatile region. It’s almost like calling two guys fighting in a bar on New Year’s eve a riot. [/QUOTE] What I had in mind was that the people who have attacked us have been Pakastani, Egyptian, Saudi, Lebanese, Yemeni, Kenyan & Sudanese (for starters). I’m thinking of WTC 1993, USS Cole, 1998 Embassy bombings, and 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/15 "2007-03-04T19:23:15Z")
[QUOTE=Key Lime Guy] What I had in mind was that the people who have attacked us have been Pakastani, Egyptian, Saudi, Lebanese, Yemeni, Kenyan & Sudanese (for starters). I’m thinking of WTC 1993, USS Cole, 1998 Embassy bombings, and 9/11. [/QUOTE] How does that constitute a world war? From the southern tip of Kenya to the outer reaches of Afghanistan is less than 4,000 miles. All the countries you list here are found in an area roughly the size of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/16 "2007-03-04T19:42:30Z")
[QUOTE=Enginerd] How does that constitute a world war? [/QUOTE] Because you also figure in the locations of the attacks (4 continents at least) when you are assessing the scope of your defensive activities. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/17 "2007-03-04T19:44:31Z")
Four attacks over thirteen years seems like a pretty relaxed World War. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/18 "2007-03-04T19:46:17Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I’m not so sure about the geographically diverse thing. It’s a couple of factions in a small part of a perpetually volatile region. It’s almost like calling two guys fighting in a bar on New Year’s eve a riot. [/QUOTE] Stanley Motss: The President will be a hero. He brought peace. Conrad Brean: But there was never a war. Stanley Motss: All the greater accomplishment.[right]–_Wag The Dog_[/right] [QUOTE=Key Lime Guy] What I had in mind was that the people who have attacked us have been Pakastani, Egyptian, Saudi, Lebanese, Yemeni, Kenyan & Sudanese (for starters). I’m thinking of WTC 1993, USS Cole, 1998 Embassy bombings, and 9/11. [/QUOTE] Upon that logic, we’ve been initiating and fighting a world war since circa 1950. The United States as participated in and provided aid and support for the overthrow of nations and governments in Africa, Europe, South and Latin America, and Asia, and thus has been responsible (at least as much as Iraq could be said to be responsible) for more acts of terrorism in the 20th Century than any other single nation or organization, save perhaps for the former Soviet Union. Depending on how you count the numbers, we are the second or third most prolific provider of weapons in the world. This whole “we’re fighting World War III/we must infringe upon your civil rights/the ends justify the means” meme has devolved into as much parody as Jack Bauer yelling, “you must do what I tell you or millions will die!!!” I wonder if these people take themselves seriously or if they know they’re as full of crap as I know they are. I guess the end of the Cold War (and successively greater fumbling of foreign policy by subsequent Administrations) the made it a little too quiet in Washington. “'We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality.” Even David Mamet couldn’t be more cynical than that. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/19 "2007-03-04T19:57:48Z")
[QUOTE=Key Lime Guy] What I had in mind was that the people who have attacked us have been Pakastani, Egyptian, Saudi, Lebanese, Yemeni, Kenyan & Sudanese (for starters). I’m thinking of WTC 1993, USS Cole, 1998 Embassy bombings, and 9/11. [/QUOTE] Pakistan: “Vital allies in War against Terrorism” Egypt: “Vital allies in War against Terrorism” Saudi Arabia: “Vital allies in War against Terrorism” Kenya: a hell of a lot more innocent Kenyans died than Americans. USS Cole: deliberatively unavenged by dumb 'ol George. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540/20 "2007-03-04T20:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] Four attacks over thirteen years seems like a pretty relaxed World War. [/QUOTE] The new crop of world leaders is pretty laid back about these things. It’s not as if any of them are members of “ **The Greatest Generation**.” Sure, they wannabe looked at with the same adoration due F.D.R. and Churchill, but they just don’t seem to have the _stones_ to make the war _real_. I think Fluoride in the drinking water is one possible explanation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-on-meet-the-press-this-is-world-war-iii/394540.md?page=2)