# Senator McCain calls for U.S. intervention in Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936 "2012-03-06T16:23:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/1 "2012-03-06T16:23:14Z")
[No, really:](http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2012/0305/Senator-McCain-calls-for-war-in-Syria) > [@](#): > > “The President must state unequivocally that under no circumstances will Assad be allowed to finish what he has started, that there is no future in which Assad and his lieutenants will remain in control of Syria, and that the United States is prepared to use the full weight of our airpower to make it so.” > > There is certainly reason for alarm from a humanitarian and moral point of view. As McCain said: “The kinds of mass atrocities that NATO intervened in Libya to prevent in Benghazi are now a reality in Homs,” Senator McCain said. “Indeed, Syria today is the scene of some of the worst state-sponsored violence since Milosevic’s war crimes in the Balkans, or Russia’s annihilation of the Chechen city of Grozny.” Yeah, Senator, it’s pretty bad. But [it could get even worse.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=641072) Syria is a lot more complicated than Libya. Anyone else think this is a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/2 "2012-03-06T16:34:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Anyone else think this is a good idea? Probably not Newt, since he’s more interested in invading Iran. [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245\_162-57391357/gingrich-eliminate-irans-govt-over-oil-route/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57391357/gingrich-eliminate-irans-govt-over-oil-route/) Seriously, how could anyone who is not either an idiot or a multimillionaire want the Republicans in charge? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/3 "2012-03-06T16:37:17Z")
Well, it’s no surprise, given McCain’s ardent support for intervention in Libya. He’s still an interventionist, and always will be. Good idea? No, but I’m still against bombing Tripoli and invading Grenada, so yanno, peacenik. I think it’s a marginally better–and safer for US interests, troops, and materiel–than a campaign against Iran. If–_if_–the US built a coalition involving NATO, the Arab League, and the UN, and _if_ it could receive at least nominal buy-in from Russia and China . . . _then_ dismantling the Assad regime _might_ work out well for the US. But I agree that the geopolitical situation in Syria makes intervention far more problematic than Libya. ETA: and call me cynical, but I think the humanitarian concerns are a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/4 "2012-03-06T16:59:44Z")
Given the past 50 years - from Chile to Iraq - it’s difficult to read an American politician condemning “state-sponsored violence” and not fall about on the floor laughing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/5 "2012-03-06T17:19:38Z")
> [@andros](#): > > ETA: and call me cynical, but I think the humanitarian concerns are a red herring. What other concerns could there be? I’m sure McCain has noticed that these Arab-Spring revolutions, if successful, tend to bring the Muslim Brotherhood or something like it to power; which is not so bad, the MB are really the MENA equivalent of Europe’s Christian Democrats, they’re not about to stone adulterers or declare war on Israel – nevertheless, I can’t see McCain reading such a change as good for American or Israeli interests. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/6 "2012-03-06T17:27:50Z")
I dunno, but I hope Obama makes up his mind on this quickly, so Newt Gingrich can know whether its a good idea or not. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/7 "2012-03-06T17:29:33Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Seriously, how could anyone who is not either an idiot or a multimillionaire want the Republicans in charge? What about idiot multi-millionaires? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/8 "2012-03-06T17:58:16Z")
I was trying to think of military operations, proposed or actual, that John McCain was against. Literally the only thing I can think of is Obama’s position in the 2008 debates that if he knew bin Laden was in Pakistan, he would go get him, which McCain essentially said was foolish. One can only imagine what would be happening in the world today had McCain been elected president. Whoa. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/9 "2012-03-06T18:19:17Z")
The Syrian Air Force has as many combat aircraft (~500) as Iraq did _in 1990_, and we probably wouldn’t have every nearby Arab state to stage from like we did last time. This is a really bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/10 "2012-03-06T18:21:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Syrian Air Force has as many combat aircraft (~500) as Iraq did _in 1990_, and we probably wouldn’t have every nearby Arab state to stage from like we did last time. This is a really bad idea. They also have some pretty bad-ass anti-aircraft systems IIRC, from the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/11 "2012-03-06T19:07:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What about idiot multi-millionaires? They’re mostly apolitical, they spend all their time on the shrimp and fruit businesses. And church choir. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/12 "2012-03-06T20:25:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Syrian Air Force has as many combat aircraft (~500) as Iraq did _in 1990_, and we probably wouldn’t have every nearby Arab state to stage from like we did last time. This is a really bad idea. Nor the widespread European support. In Libya, I think that American aircraft were flying only unmanned drones after the first week. In Syria, we’d be exposing our people for much longer. Besides, in Syria, we don’t have an armed rebel force with a defined front; it’s all urban fighting, which makes it much harder to bomb. In Libya, the open warfare made Qaddafi’s air power a potent weapon against the rebels, and so a no-fly zone made sense. In Syria, the government isn’t really using their air force much. To do anything worthwhile, we’d need boots on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/13 "2012-03-06T20:59:42Z")
Protecting innocent civilians is the moral thing to do, from a humanitarian, democratic, and international law perspective. If we could get Arab League and UN support, I’d back any effort to stop the massacre. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/14 "2012-03-06T21:13:38Z")
I believe any action here would only further inflame the Iranian fear that if you don’t have nukes the US is going to give you shit. We absolutely should help anyone else’s effort, but I don’t think we should just go in or otherwise lead on this one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/15 "2012-03-06T21:25:16Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Protecting innocent civilians is the moral thing to do, from a humanitarian, democratic, and international law perspective. OTOH, in this case we can’t “protect innocent civilians” without, in effect, taking sides in a civil war and destabilizing the government. And Syria is such a social-religious-ethnic powderkeg (in a way Libya never was) that destabilizing the government could lead to neighborhood-by-neighborhood ethnic cleansing, like in post-Invasion Iraq. One lesson we should have learned from Iraq is that, sometimes, a brutal dictatorship really is the best thing for a country under the circumstances, in the sense that all **plausible** alternatives are even worse. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/16 "2012-03-06T23:15:57Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Probably not Newt, since he’s more interested in invading Iran. I’m reminded of the scene in _Trading Places_ at the end of the movie where the newly rich former butler is asked by the waiter at the beach whether he would like the lobster or the crab, and his buxom blonde lady friend looks at him and says “Why can’t we have both?”? So seriously, why not nail _both_ Syria and Iran simultaneously? Surely the Republicans can get on board with that. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/17 "2012-03-06T23:46:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What other concerns could there be? I’m sure McCain has noticed that these Arab-Spring revolutions, if successful, tend to bring the Muslim Brotherhood or something like it to power; which is not so bad, the MB are really the MENA equivalent of Europe’s Christian Democrats, they’re not about to stone adulterers or declare war on Israel – nevertheless, I can’t see McCain reading such a change as good for American or Israeli interests. Perhaps so. I just distrust that his motivations are all that pure. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/18 "2012-03-07T00:24:44Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I’m reminded of the scene in _Trading Places_ at the end of the movie where the newly rich former butler is asked by the waiter at the beach whether he would like the lobster or the crab, and his buxom blonde lady friend looks at him and says “Why can’t we have both?”? > > So seriously, why not nail _both_ Syria and Iran simultaneously? Surely the Republicans can get on board with that. Hey, Iraqis? Yeah, I know we said we were leaving. Look, a situation has come up and we need to use your country as a staging-ground to invade two of your neighbors at once. Yeah, we’ll have to move about half a million troops in, but don’t worry, they’re not occupying you this time, they’re just . . . camping . . . you won’t even know they’re there, you guys’ll be all right, what could go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/19 "2012-03-07T00:49:24Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Protecting innocent civilians is the moral thing to do, from a humanitarian, democratic, and international law perspective. If we could get Arab League and UN support, I’d back any effort to stop the massacre. Any effort? Even an ineffective or counter-productive one? ---
**Author:** ![J\_Cubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@J\_Cubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J_Cubed)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936/20 "2012-03-07T00:52:06Z")
We should get together and have some sort of poll to see whether America will do what John McCain thinks is right or what Barack Obama thinks is right. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-mccain-calls-for-u-s-intervention-in-syria/614936.md?page=2)