# Senator Obama, Quit Making This Hard For Me! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492 "2008-08-01T14:45:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/161 "2008-08-08T15:12:02Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Of course, your comment makes no sense. My respect for McCain is due only in part to his military service. More specifically, how he conducted himself when serving. Comparing Kerry to him is beyond laughable. McCain was handed an opportunity to escape torture and a ticket home and chose to stay. Kerry gamed the system and fabricated an exit after a few months in combat by trying to turn bad-aids into Purple Hearts. Ha! The only justice is that he did it all as a road to the presidency (mistaking himself for the real JFK), an office he will never ever hold. He is history. “Reporting for duty”? No, I don’t think so. By the way, when is he going to release is full military medical records, like he said he would? But, please, keep bringing the band-aid warrior. I love being able to piss on him again and again and again. [/QUOTE] I rest my case. Your professed respect for military service is completely phony. You don’t give a crap about McCain’s service. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/162 "2008-08-08T15:53:23Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I rest my case. Your professed respect for military service is completely phony. You don’t give a crap about McCain’s service. [/QUOTE] Whatever you say, Kreskin. Sorry that you can’t distinguish between wearing the uniform and wearing it honorably. But I am not surprised. I commend you on living up to your usual abilities of analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/163 "2008-08-08T16:11:07Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Whatever you say, Kreskin. Sorry that you can’t distinguish between wearing the uniform and wearing it honorably. But I am not surprised. I commend you on living up to your usual abilities of analysis. [/QUOTE] I _have_ worn the uniform. Have you? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/164 "2008-08-08T16:49:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I _have_ worn the uniform. Have you? [/QUOTE] Unbelievable. I shower you with another commendation. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/165 "2008-08-08T16:59:31Z")
This seems like a good time and place to put [a link to this little ditty](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKZryEAzUg) that I heard on the radio today. If you’re not too busy pissing that is. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/166 "2008-08-08T16:59:46Z")
**magellan** , what planet are you on? Seriously. Where the _hell_ do you get off denigrating Kerry’s service like that? Where the _hell_ do you get off denigrating **Dio** ’s service like that? Who made _you_ the judge of what things are worthy of respect and honor? Not a person here has suggested that McCain doesn’t deserve honor for his service during the Viet Nam War. Not a person here has suggested that McCain hadn’t served honorably for some years in the Senate. We simply argue the downright undeniable - that the McCain of today is rather different from the McCain of 2000 and earlier. But you, you son of a disgruntled mole and an aardvark. I exhale vehemently upon the armpit of your plumber’s second cousin! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/167 "2008-08-08T17:16:35Z")
Its quite simple, really. A genuine American veteran doesn’t disrespect America by questioning the war. Whichever war. Kerry wasn’t a real American veteran because he led that contingent of phony veterans called the Viet Nam Veterans Against The War. Sure, they signed up, they went, some of them got pieces blown off, but they weren’t _real_ Americans, therefore they can’t be _real_ American veterans. The instant they start pounding the drums, a real American throws his critical thinking faculties straight into the nearest dumpster. George Patton was a real American, he said real Americans love war. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/168 "2008-08-08T17:26:31Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] **magellan** , what planet are you on? Seriously. Where the _hell_ do you get off denigrating Kerry’s service like that? Where the _hell_ do you get off denigrating **Dio** ’s service like that? Who made _you_ the judge of what things are worthy of respect and honor? Not a person here has suggested that McCain doesn’t deserve honor for his service during the Viet Nam War. Not a person here has suggested that McCain hadn’t served honorably for some years in the Senate. We simply argue the downright undeniable - that the McCain of today is rather different from the McCain of 2000 and earlier. But you, you son of a disgruntled mole and an aardvark. I exhale vehemently upon the armpit of your plumber’s second cousin! [/QUOTE] Easy, Tiger. I have not commented one way or another on **Dio’s** service. So, please engage brain before typing. He might have been a goldbricking scumbag or a genuine hero. Barring any information to the contrary I simply assume someone’s service to be of the honorable variety. His included. Which is not the case with the Purple Heart scavenger. My "commendation’ to him was for his usually weak thinking. First, for telling me what I think, and then for thinking that his wearing the uniform matters in this discussion. As far as McCain, I appreciated your thoughtful post. I do think it fair that someone who liked him in 2000 might not like him now. That they might find his stances on the issues that face us today unacceptable. But to equate that to some fundamental failing on his part goes too far. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/169 "2008-08-08T17:26:51Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Unbelievable. I shower you with another commendation. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Who’s asking for a commendation? I’m just wondering where you get the authority to declare who has or has not served honorably, especially when they’ve served in combat. From where I’m sitting, your alleged respect for the uniform is completely phony. You either respect combat vets or you don’t. You don’t just invoke it when it’s covenient to you politically. Your sliming of John Kerry is a de facto sliming of all combat vets. ETA just in case there’s any misunderstanding, I am definitely NOT a combat vet. There weren’t any wars while I was in. I just know better than to go around mouthing off about who did or did not serve honorably in shit I never got close to. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/170 "2008-08-08T17:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Your sliming of John Kerry is a de facto sliming of all combat vets. [/QUOTE] Another commendation for you! Do you actually believe this? You simply can’t be that, uh…anti-genius. If you believe this then you believe that whenever you’ve been pitted ALL dopers have been pitted. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/171 "2008-08-08T17:41:50Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Easy, Tiger. I have not commented one way or another on **Dio’s** service. So, please engage brain before typing. He might have been a goldbricking scumbag or a genuine hero. Barring any information to the contrary I simply assume someone’s service to be of the honorable variety. His included. Which is not the case with the Purple Heart scavenger. My "commendation’ to him was for his usually weak thinking. First, for telling me what I think, and then for thinking that his wearing the uniform matters in this discussion. As far as McCain, I appreciated your thoughtful post. I do think it fair that someone who liked him in 2000 might not like him now. That they might find his stances on the issues that face us today unacceptable. But to equate that to some fundamental failing on his part goes too far. [/QUOTE] First of all, that’s Tigress to you, bub! 😉 And I believe that my brain and I remain on good terms and agreed on a marriage at all times, hence engaged. Second, on what besides the Swiftboaters do you base the idea that Kerry was, as you so eloquently put it, a Purple Heart scavenger? Third, I think **Dio** ’s having worn the uniform does have some relevance to his judgment of military honor. Fourth, and perhaps most important to this thread, the fact that McCain has done a virtual 180 degree turnaround in a number of his positions for the obvious reason of wanting to get the Republican nomination, while understandable, is to some of us indeed indicative of a fundamental failing on his part, especially as we believe that he would, for the most part, be forced to maintain those positions for the duration of at least a first term. To many of us, this stains his honor. It can never eliminate it; his history remains untouched. But what he has done in the past does not change what he is doing in the present or what he appears to be likely to do in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/172 "2008-08-08T17:44:50Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Another commendation for you! Do you actually believe this? You simply can’t be that, uh…anti-genius. If you believe this then you believe that whenever you’ve been pitted ALL dopers have been pitted. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Yes, I actually believe this. You are in no moral position to decide who has or has not served honorably in a war you did not participate in. The fact that you would even try to make those judgements is an insult to all vets. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/173 "2008-08-08T18:01:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Yes, I actually believe this. You are in no moral position to decide who has or has not served honorably in a war you did not participate in. The fact that you would even try to make those judgements is an insult to all vets. [/QUOTE] Amazing, even for you: you believe that if someone pits you that they are pitting All Dopers. Stunning. Completely and utterly ridiculous, and stunning. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/174 "2008-08-08T18:09:20Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Amazing, even for you: you believe that if someone pits you that they are pitting All Dopers. Stunning. Completely and utterly ridiculous, and stunning. [/QUOTE] We are in a positition to evaluate someone’s posts and decide if an individual deserves pitting. You are in no position to review _anybody’s_ service in Vietnam. The irony is that you would probably have a fit if anyone here started trying to critique the individual service records of military personel serving in Iraq or Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/175 "2008-08-08T18:15:36Z")
I ask again, **magellan** , on what besides the Swiftboaters do you base the idea that Kerry was a Purple Heart scavenger? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/176 "2008-08-08T18:19:59Z")
We know the answer to that. He’s a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/177 "2008-08-08T18:23:33Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] We are in a positition to evaluate someone’s posts and decide if an individual deserves pitting. You are in no position to review _anybody’s_ service in Vietnam. The irony is that you would probably have a fit if anyone here started trying to critique the individual service records of military personel serving in Iraq or Afghanistan. [/QUOTE] And you’d be—SURPRISE!—wrong. And while I might not be the person to evaluate someone’s service in a war forty years ago that I did not see, the people who were there are. His commanders are. They are free to share their thoughts and observations. I m free to evaluate them. You do realize how the study of history works, don’t you. Wait, no need to answer that. And I’m free to evaluate what the media has preserved of his actions after his Great Escape from combat. But wait, I say bad things about John F’in Kerry I therefore disparage all military men who have ever served; I disparage all people ever to have hail from Massachusetts; I disparage all mighty windsurfers and bunny-suit wearers, all males, all of the human race!!! All organic matter, too! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/178 "2008-08-08T18:28:24Z")
Wait a minute. Are you saying that Kerry’s service was dishonorable because he protested the war _after_ he returned? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/179 "2008-08-08T18:28:43Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] I ask again, **magellan** , on what besides the Swiftboaters do you base the idea that Kerry was a Purple Heart scavenger? [/QUOTE] On the totality of information that I have. On the book that revealed him for what he is. And numerous interviews with them and others, Kerry included, that revealed him for what his is. On the lies he’s been caught in. On the fact he’s never released his full military medical records as he said he would. I’m curious, have you read _Unfit for Command_? ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492/180 "2008-08-08T18:30:11Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] …but watch the 527’s and other surrogates spring up to do the dirty work. And McCain’s side will do the same thing. And both candidates (perhaps correctly) will claim that they’re not responsible for the activities of other groups, and will issue mild condemnations to keep their reputations intact. But the damage will be done. [/QUOTE] I heard a report on NPR that the GOP was having a hard time finding 527s to do their work this time around, because nobody wanted to take the blame for escalating against Obama. The fear was that after any attack on Obama, McCain would have to strongly disavow the guilty party, and then any names tied to that attack would be _persona non grata_ in DC if McCain lost, especially if there was a perception that “going negative” had caused him to blow a close race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-obama-quit-making-this-hard-for-me/458492.md?page=10)