# Senator Russ Feingold moves to censure Bush over NSA wiretaps **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377 "2006-03-14T23:03:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Thersites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@Thersites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thersites)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/61 "2006-03-15T19:50:24Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I’ve heard it before, like at this wackjob’s blog: > > [http://vichydems.blogspot.com/](http://vichydems.blogspot.com/) > > Now that’s a guy who _really_ want’s the Democratic Party to eat their own. You must not have spent much time at my site, then. The message at [VichyDems](http://vichydems.blogspot.com) isn’t that every centrist or conservative Democrat is a Vichy. It’s that the “Democrats” who actively empower and enable the Republicans by giving them political cover – like Joe Lieberman in the Senate, who sides with Bush on censure, Iraq, NSA surveillance, the bankruptcy bill, even abortion, and Henry Cuellar in the House, who campaigned for Bush over Kerry in 2004, was endorsed by Grover Norquist, and actually sat on the Republican side of the aisle during the last State of the Union – are more dangerous than their seats are worth and are the real ones who are splitting the party. Since the Democratic Party started running to the center instead of standing on progressive principles, we’ve elected one President (Clinton) but lost control of both houses of Congress, the courts, and now the Presidency. We’re something like 1 for 200 with the “court the swing voters” strategy. But we dominated most of the 20th century when we stood for relatively liberal values. So before you dismiss those of us who are working to shift the party left again as being politically impractical, please do some homework. Read [this post](http://vichydems.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-well-do-better-in-elections.html) , and then tell me how well the DLC’s strategy is working. Read [this](http://vichydems.blogspot.com/2006/03/walk-line.html) , and tell me I’m a whack job. And read [this](http://vichydems.blogspot.com/2006/03/democracy-plutocracy-aristocracy-same.html) and [this](http://vichydems.blogspot.com/2006/03/enemy-without-obstructionists-within.html) , then tell me the centrists are really working for the good of the party instead of for themselves. Six months ago I was where you are. And I definitely am opposed to the folks who want to start a new party or support Nader or some such. But the DLC approach isn’t working, and Feingold’s will, if only the cowards on the Hill will get behind him. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/62 "2006-03-15T20:01:21Z")
> [@EEMan](#): > > That she isn’t a yes woman, or that she is good at her job? Either. She sucked at her last job (national security adviser), because she pretty much let Rummy run the world, rather than being an honest broker between State and Defense. > [@](#): > > “Good at her job” of course is an opinion, but it is a commonly held one (from my personal expirence; and if we can extrapilate polling data and her ‘run’ against Mrs. Clinton) Well, she’s been in charge of our foreign policy for long enough to get a read on it: how’s her foreign policy been, so far? _What_’s it been, for that matter? We’re apparently pushing forward with democracy in the Middle East, which is like doing interior decorating when your house is on fire. We’re making noises but not much more in Sudan, and we’re rattling scabbards (the sword’s already in use) at Iran as if Iraq didn’t exist. And our China policy seems to be to pray that they never stop buying our T-bills by the truckload. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/63 "2006-03-15T20:02:57Z")
> [@Thersites](#): > > Six months ago I was where you are. And I definitely am opposed to the folks who want to start a new party or support Nader or some such. But the DLC approach isn’t working, and Feingold’s will, if only the cowards on the Hill will get behind him. You’ve never been where I am, friend, considering that I am a conservative Republican. They do allow a few of us onto this board, you know. And if you do indeed run that site, my original assessment still stands. You’d tear down the entire Democratic Party for the sake of ideological purity. That position is just nuts, and guaranteed to lose. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/64 "2006-03-15T20:06:05Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > We’ve tried the minimal-confrontation approach in 2002 and 2004, and it worked _so_ well. When the other party periodically accuses those in my party of anything up to and including being in bed with the terrorists, it’s time to try something new: to not be afraid to accuse them of the things they’ve actually done. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not advising a no-confrontation approach. I’m only suggesting that the confrontation be over something where Bush is politcally weak. It’s not like there aren’t plenty of issues in that category. You want the converstion to be about the NSA program? Fine. The Republicans would like nothing more than for that to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/65 "2006-03-15T20:32:16Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Maybe I’m living in a fantasy world, but if you break the law, you should be held accountable in SOME way. Whether you be the damned President of the United States in Wartime ™ or a homeless drifter on the street. Unless it’s about sex. Then you get a free pass. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/66 "2006-03-15T20:41:17Z")
Of course after I posted the above, I was reminded of the Feinstein censure further down in the thread. My, that crow sure is tasty! ---
**Author:** ![Thersites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@Thersites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thersites)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/67 "2006-03-15T20:42:22Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > You’ve never been where I am, friend, considering that I am a conservative Republican. > > They do allow a few of us onto this board, you know. > > And if you do indeed run that site, my original assessment still stands. You’d tear down the entire Democratic Party for the sake of ideological purity. > > That position is just nuts, and guaranteed to lose. Ah, well, you’re a conservative Republican. (What does that mean? That you support balanced budgets, a minimalist foreign policy, small government and getting that government off our backs? Or, no, wait, huge deficits, an interventionist foreign policy, the biggest government in history and that government meddling in everything from local school board policy to warrantless wiretaps? No, wait…) Anyway, I’m sure every Democrat here appreciates your concern for the health of our party. I’m sure your advice, to keep pursuing a losing strategy by courting swing voters instead of backing Feingold, is sound and meant to help us. In the same vein of cross-party electoral counseling, may I urge you to support Bill Frist for President, perhaps with Tom Delay as his running mate? Really, I think it’s as good an idea for you as your suggestion – that we not follow Feingold’s lead – would be for us. Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Thersites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@Thersites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thersites)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/68 "2006-03-15T20:49:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You want the converstion to be about the NSA program? Fine. The Republicans would like nothing more than for that to be the case. Yep, and Brer Rabbit didn’t want to be thrown in the briar patch, either. A [clear majority of the American people](http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=12525) not only think wiretaps should be done with warrants, but think the President should be impeached if he authorized wiretaps without following the law (which he admits he did). Why so many Dems are afraid to stand up and say, with Feingold, “I’m all for spying on terrorists but it must be done under the law” is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/69 "2006-03-15T21:14:08Z")
> [@Thersites](#): > > Why so many Dems are afraid to stand up and say, with Feingold, “I’m all for spying on terrorists but it must be done under the law” is beyond me. Because the message will be switched by the Republicans to “I’m all for … terrorism”. It is precisely this ability to mislead voters and paint Democrats as weak against terrorism that has people like **Moto** hoping it becomes an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Thersites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@Thersites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thersites)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/70 "2006-03-15T21:17:09Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Veni, vidi, vichy… I came, I saw, I caved. Elucidator, I love this, stole it, and [gave you props](http://vichydems.blogspot.com/2006/03/veni-vidi-vichy.html). Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Thersites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@Thersites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thersites)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/71 "2006-03-15T21:21:39Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > It is precisely this ability to mislead voters and paint Democrats as weak against terrorism that has people like **Moto** hoping it becomes an issue. You’re exactly right that that fear is what motivates the cowards, but it still baffles me. If your opponent twists your words, you shut up and let him have the floor all the time? The framing on this one should be simple: “I’m all for spying on terrorists, but if you’re going to spy on Americans, you have to abide by the law. We can be both safe and free.” Repeat 1,000 times and call me in November. If I seem snarky, it’s because I’m so damned frustrated with the leaders in my own party who can’t even articulate a good, simple talking point. (And who the hell came up with the party’s new slogan, “We Can Do Better”? Jesus. Any intern on the Hill could come up with a better one than that. How about, “We Couldn’t Do Worse”?) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/72 "2006-03-15T21:49:15Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Don’t get me wrong. I’m not advising a no-confrontation approach. I’m only suggesting that the confrontation be over something where Bush is politcally weak. It’s not like there aren’t plenty of issues in that category. You want the converstion to be about the NSA program? Fine. The Republicans would like nothing more than for that to be the case. That’s how they’re publicly playing it, but IMHO it’s bluster to scare the Dems off, and it’s working so far. I’m all for making the NSA program a political issue, especially the part about the President being a confessed serial felon. If we’re going to impeach his ass before his term’s practically over anyway, the time to start making the public case for it is now, and this is the first step. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/73 "2006-03-15T22:58:19Z")
> [@Thersites](#): > > Yep, and Brer Rabbit didn’t want to be thrown in the briar patch, either. > > A [clear majority of the American people](http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=12525) not only think wiretaps should be done with warrants, but think the President should be impeached if he authorized wiretaps without following the law (which he admits he did). Why so many Dems are afraid to stand up and say, with Feingold, “I’m all for spying on terrorists but it must be done under the law” is beyond me. Be careful of polls. Note the question that was asked (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > “If President Bush wiretapped American citizens without the approval of a judge, do you agree or disagree that Congress should consider holding him accountable through impeachment.” [Depending on how you word the question, you get different results.](http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm) But, if this is such a great idea, why aren’t more Democratic Senators joining Feingold in his efforts? Please let’s not blame the mean ol’ Republicans for making them too scared to stand up for the principles. > [@RTF](#): > > I’m all for making the NSA program a political issue, especially the part about the President being a confessed serial felon. And this, folks, is prescisely how to gaurantee that the Dems do not win back control of either House in Congress come November. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/74 "2006-03-15T23:16:30Z")
Feingold cares passionately about truth, law, and government, but I don’t think he gives a damn about politics or the Democratic party. Judging by the emails I’ve been getting (I’m on his “Progressive Patriots” mailing list) he’s been really, really steamed about this wiretapping thing for at least two months. I honestly doubt a lot of political strategizing went into the censure thing, because, well, I’m not entirely sure he really knows how to _do_ that. He’s so honorable it hurts, and if there’s one thing he seemingly doesn’t understand very well, it’s that “the right thing to do” and “the best thing to do” are not necessarily the same thing. All the same, I’d give up a kidney to have him as president. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/75 "2006-03-15T23:33:00Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > But, if this is such a great idea, why aren’t more Democratic Senators joining Feingold in his efforts? Please let’s not blame the mean ol’ Republicans for making them too scared to stand up for the principles. Because they also see the polls, but at the same time one should not forget were the people are getting their news to bother about this issue, I have noticed even a reporter of the New York Times omitting the warrant part. When the mainstream is following the stupid meme that republicans are now against the president this bit of news does not fit. Feingold is reminding the media, Republicans and Democrats about the whitewash. > [@John Mace](#): > > > [@RTF](#): > > > > I’m all for making the NSA program a political issue, especially the part about the President being a confessed serial felon. > > And this, folks, is precisely how to guarantee that the Dems do not win back control of either House in Congress come November. Ah yes, war is peace, black is white and it is better to lie than to remind people about warrant less wiretappings. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/76 "2006-03-15T23:38:56Z")
> [@elfbabe](#): > > Feingold cares passionately about truth, law, and government, but I don’t think he gives a damn about politics or the Democratic party. Judging by the emails I’ve been getting (I’m on his “Progressive Patriots” mailing list) he’s been really, really steamed about this wiretapping thing for at least two months. I honestly doubt a lot of political strategizing went into the censure thing, because, well, I’m not entirely sure he really knows how to _do_ that. He’s so honorable it hurts, and if there’s one thing he seemingly doesn’t understand very well, it’s that “the right thing to do” and “the best thing to do” are not necessarily the same thing. > > All the same, I’d give up a kidney to have him as president. This I don’t get. One of the biggest complaints about Bush is that he doesn’t listen to other people and has a “go it alone” attitude. Isn’t this a similar manifestation of the same thing? How would President Feingold work with the Europeans to keep Iran from devloping nuclear weapons? Would he insist on doing “the right thing” as opposed to “the best thing”? If so, can’t the Democrats do better in giving us a presidential nominee? Maybe the answer to that question lies outside the Senate chambers and in a governor’s mansion somewhere in the South, the Midwest, or the West. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/77 "2006-03-16T00:06:31Z")
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Everyone – right and left – on this thread, is overlooking the sheer _beauty_ of this manuever. This is a political move for the ages. It doesn’t hurt that it also happens to be, IMHO, the right thing to do. 1. Feingold’s resolution gets called up before the Senate. It is voted down 98-2 with only Feingold and Harkin voting for it. Feingold may even lose his race (is he running in 2006?). It doesn’t matter, even if he splits the Congressional Dems. Why? Well let’s look at other repercussions. 2. There is a reason Feingold picked the wiretapping stuff over the other, more unpopular Bush stuff. He wants to cement his role as the civil liberties Democrat. Remember that Dems hate Bush, but there are other people who hate Bush too, namely civil libertarians. Remember, in a country split basically 50/50 Dem/Repub, the President’s numbers are dipping to 30%. That’s 20% of the Republican Party that can be cleaved. But he has to start early to get a toehold, reminding them early and often that he is a good alternative civil libertarian alternative to the Republican Machine. Never mind the Dems right now, we will come to that. So the first step is the Feingold against the Bush-paradigm Republicans (Frist and the rest). Feingold starts to look appealing to these folks. Kind of like a McCain on the left – the Dem that Repubs can like. Like McCain, who has a bunch of social conservative viewpoints that most Democrats despise, he is seen as an honest soldier, uncorrupted by the Washington Stink. Well Feingold, despite his liberalism (which he can remind people is about _liberty_ at every opportunity), can be liked by the civil libertarians. 1. I predict that sometime near/before midterm elections, the US will significantly draw down troop numbers in Iraq. It is almost inevitable given the current situation. This will be despite any stable situation emerging. It will be viewed as the “sensible” thing to do to cut our losses but of course they won’t use that language because it will evoke “cut-n-run.” The natural instinct of the Dems will be to take the easy bait and attack the President and Repubs for “cut-n-run.” But wait! All of a sudden, HRC and the majority of the Congressional Dems will find themselves outflanked on the left side for Iraq by the Repubs. The Dems will be left holding the bag for continuing an unpopular war, LBJ-style. Oops! Now the Repubs neatly remove the albatross of Iraq and hang it on the Dems. This leaves the Dems to choose a candidate, HRC or Biden, who is thoroughly outflanked on the war, or go with someone whose views have never wavered. Alas, Feingold. 1. The last piece. All along, Feingold has been playing to the Dean base (yes, and the [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) folks). Remember how strong Dean looked at points during 2004. Well, he and his base are only stronger and better organized. Dean runs the DNC, and largely separated it for the DLCC or whoever is pushing the HRC line nowadays. Congressional Dems are mostly old and stale, as the majority of the Dem Party complains about. Feingold can remind party faithful every day that the vast majority sided with a _vastly_ unpopular president versus taking a stand with him on the censure resolution (and the Patriot Act and lots of other things). No ill-timed scream will derail him. He will sail into the Dem nomination over HRC, who will drop out and perhaps angle for a VP spot. No thoughts about the 2008 campaign, though. The Repub election engine, headed by Rove, is too good for that. My guess, though, is that they will have to go after his divorce and make subtle Jew references for any real traction. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/78 "2006-03-16T00:11:33Z")
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Everyone – right and left – on this thread, is overlooking the sheer _beauty_ of this manuever. This is a political move for the ages. It doesn’t hurt that it also happens to be, IMHO, the right thing to do. 1. Feingold’s resolution gets called up before the Senate. It is voted down 98-2 with only Feingold and Harkin voting for it. Feingold may even lose his race (is he running in 2006?). It doesn’t matter, even if he splits the Congressional Dems. Why? Well let’s look at other repercussions. 2. There is a reason Feingold picked the wiretapping stuff over the other, more unpopular Bush stuff. He wants to cement his role as the civil liberties Democrat. Remember that Dems hate Bush, but there are other people who hate Bush too, namely civil libertarians. Remember, in a country split basically 50/50 Dem/Repub, the President’s numbers are dipping to 30%. That’s 20% of the Republican Party that can be cleaved. But he has to start early to get a toehold, reminding them early and often that he is a good alternative civil libertarian alternative to the Republican Machine. Never mind the Dems right now, we will come to that. So the first step is the Feingold against the Bush-paradigm Republicans (Frist and the rest). Feingold starts to look appealing to these folks. Kind of like a McCain on the left – the Dem that Repubs can like. Like McCain, who has a bunch of social conservative viewpoints that most Democrats despise, he is seen as an honest soldier, uncorrupted by the Washington Stink. Well Feingold, despite his liberalism (which he can remind people is about _liberty_ at every opportunity), can be liked by the civil libertarians. 1. I predict that sometime near/before midterm elections, the US will significantly draw down troop numbers in Iraq. It is almost inevitable given the current situation. This will be despite any stable situation emerging. It will be viewed as the “sensible” thing to do to cut our losses but of course they won’t use that language because it will evoke “cut-n-run.” The natural instinct of the Dems will be to take the easy bait and attack the President and Repubs for “cut-n-run.” But wait! All of a sudden, HRC and the majority of the Congressional Dems will find themselves outflanked on the left side for Iraq by the Repubs. The Dems will be left holding the bag for continuing an unpopular war, LBJ-style. Oops! Now the Repubs neatly remove the albatross of Iraq and hang it on the Dems. This leaves the Dems to choose a candidate, HRC or Biden, who is thoroughly outflanked on the war, or go with someone whose views have never wavered. Alas, Feingold. 1. The last piece. All along, Feingold has been playing to the Dean base (yes, and the [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) folks). Remember how strong Dean looked at points during 2004. Well, he and his base are only stronger and better organized. Dean runs the DNC, and largely separated it for the DLCC or whoever is pushing the HRC line nowadays. Congressional Dems are mostly old and stale, as the majority of the Dem Party complains about. Feingold can remind party faithful every day that the vast majority sided with a _vastly_ unpopular president versus taking a stand with him on the censure resolution (and the Patriot Act and lots of other things). No ill-timed scream will derail him. He will sail into the Dem nomination over HRC, who will drop out and perhaps angle for a VP spot. No thoughts about the 2008 campaign, though. The Repub election engine, headed by Rove, is too good for that. My guess, though, is that they will have to go after his divorce and make subtle Jew references for any real traction. ---
**Author:** ![Thersites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@Thersites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thersites)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/79 "2006-03-16T14:11:08Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Be careful of polls. Note the question that was asked (emphasis added): > [Depending on how you word the question, you get different results.](http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm) > > But, if this is such a great idea, why aren’t more Democratic Senators joining Feingold in his efforts? Please let’s not blame the mean ol’ Republicans for making them too scared to stand up for the principles. > And this, folks, is prescisely how to gaurantee that the Dems do not win back control of either House in Congress come November. You make a good point about polling language. It doesn’t change my calculus – the numbers are still on our side if the issue is stated clearly with “warrants” in the question – but I appreciate it whenever someone helps me with factual corrections!! ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377/80 "2006-03-16T14:33:57Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > But, if this is such a great idea, why aren’t more Democratic Senators joining Feingold in his efforts? Please let’s not blame the mean ol’ Republicans for making them too scared to stand up for the principles. Just out of curiosity, in the last five years, what have you seen from congressional Democrats that would give you the idea that they would recognize a great idea that gave them a political advantage and join in on it? Seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senator-russ-feingold-moves-to-censure-bush-over-nsa-wiretaps/348377.md?page=5)