# Senators Robert Byrd (D-WV), Zell Miller (D-GA), Ben Nelson (D-NE). **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134 "2004-07-14T20:43:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/1 "2004-07-14T20:43:52Z")
Senators Robert Byrd (D-WV), Zell Miller (D-GA), Ben Nelson (D-NE) crossed the aisle to vote for the mostly Republican backed Federal Marriage Amendment. Now I’ve voiced a lot of vitriol towards the Republicans for supporting this Amendment. I’d be remiss if I didn’t do the same for these assholes. Sen. Byrd you bigoted piece of shit. You are an embarrassment to the Democratic Party. From the 2000 Party Platform, " We support continued efforts, like the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, to end workplace discrimination against gay men and lesbians. We support the full inclusion of gay and lesbian families in the life of the nation. This would include an equitable alignment of benefits." Well you’ve gone against that platform time and time again; voting Against the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, voting for DOMA, voting for the FMA. You are worthless. Sen. Miller, why are you even a Democrat? You rubber stamp nearly every nomination Bush has submitted. You Co-Sponsored the FMA. You utter this absolute drivel > [@](#): > > Mr. President, here we go again, rushing to give aid and comfort to our enemies-pushing, pulling, shoving, and leaping over one another to assign blame and point the finger at “America the terrible,” lining up in long lines at the microphones to offer apologies to those poor, pitiful Iraqi prisoners. > > Of course, I do not condone all the things that went on in that prison, but I for one refuse to join in this national act of contrition over it. Those who are wringing their hands and shouting so loudly for heads to roll over this seem to have conveniently overlooked the fact that someone’s head has rolled, that of another innocent American brutally murdered by terrorists. concerning the torture photos. Change parties and get it over with. Sen. Ben Nelson, like Miller, you vote consistently with the Republicans on issue after issue from being Anti-Choice to being Anti-Gay. I have to wonder why you are a Democrat. On the flip side, I doff my hat to Senators Campbell (R-CO), Chafee (R-RI), Collins (R-ME), McCain (R-AZ), Snowe (R-ME) and Sununu (R-NH). These brave Republicans stood up for the values of Equality and Justice that define our nation. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/2 "2004-07-14T20:49:01Z")
Bunch of schmucks. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/3 "2004-07-14T20:52:28Z")
And…what about the fact that Kerry AND Edwards are fucking cowards and [didn’t even vote!](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/14/politics/14CND-GAYS.html). Jackasses. > [@](#): > > they said they expected it to reverberate throughout the campaign season. Senators John Kerry of Massachusetts and John Edwards of North Carolina, the two members of the Democratic presidential ticket, did not vote. They both oppose the amendment, however, saying that while they oppose same-sex marriage, the issue is a state concern. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/4 "2004-07-14T21:01:45Z")
Funny, that article didn’t mention that both Kerry and Edwards were in Iowa. Damn liberal media… ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/5 "2004-07-14T21:04:50Z")
Kerry and Edwards didn’t vote because this wasn’t really a vote on the FMA. It was a vote on cloture. Had cloture passed, they had pledged to return to the Senate to vote against the FMA. They had also told Daschle that if the cloture vote looked even close, they would return, but he told them to keep campaigning. Most of the votes “missed” by Kerry and Edwards have been cloture votes and unanimous consent agreements – procedural votes whose results are basically predetermined. This non-vote vote is no different. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/6 "2004-07-14T21:09:12Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > … that article didn’t mention that both Kerry and Edwards were in Iowa. I know I couldn’t _do my job_ if I were in Iowa. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/7 "2004-07-14T21:10:39Z")
I feel that both Kerry and Edwards are doing a better job representing the interests of my party in Iowa than any number of individuals currently in the House or Senate chambers. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/8 "2004-07-14T21:12:41Z")
Yeah, Byrdie-boy’s a social conservative. He is popular with the folks of West Virginia, though. Some for that very reason, and some because he manages to funnel oodles and oodles of Federal dollars to WV-based projects. He’ll be elected again and again until he dies. Or quits. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/9 "2004-07-14T21:13:15Z")
This is a state issue vs. federal issue…not Dem v. Rep issue…expect party lines to be split on this. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/10 "2004-07-14T21:19:33Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > This is a state issue vs. federal issue…not Dem v. Rep issue…expect party lines to be split on this. Can you expand on this? I am having trouble reconciling the two thoughts. Given that Republicans overwhelmingly supported this and that Democrats did not, how is this not a Democrat vs. Republican issue? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/11 "2004-07-14T21:22:42Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > This is a state issue vs. federal issue…not Dem v. Rep issue…expect party lines to be split on this. Bullshit. If that were the case the vote would have been dramatically different, as Republicans are supposed to be all in support of “States Rights”. In fact that was one of the reasons McCain voted against it. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/12 "2004-07-14T21:34:11Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > He’ll be elected again and again until he dies. Or quits. And I imagine that it’ll be the former. Disclosure: Both of my senators voted for it, too. Fucking assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/13 "2004-07-14T21:34:37Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Bullshit. If that were the case the vote would have been dramatically different, as Republicans are supposed to be all in support of “States Rights”. In fact that was one of the reasons McCain voted against it. Supposed to be. They’ve been fucking state rights alot lately. :mad: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/14 "2004-07-14T21:36:06Z")
**Binarydrone** , I think what \*\*Yeticus Rex \*\* means when he says the FMA is a “state issue v. federal issue” is that matters relating to marriage (e.g., the minimum age, licensing requirements, etc.) are traditionally the province of state law. Conservative Republicans (and conservative Democrats) are usually against expanding federal power at the expense of the states. Thus, ostensibly, many conservative lawmakers–even if they are opposed to gay marriage–would be against the FMA because it represents a massive federal intrusion into the states’ control over marriage. In their eyes, that’s a bigger sin. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/15 "2004-07-14T21:48:43Z")
> [@gatopescado](#): > > I know I couldn’t _do my job_ if I were in Iowa. Could you do it from Crawfordsville, Texas? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/16 "2004-07-14T21:50:14Z")
Minus the -sville, of course. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/17 "2004-07-14T23:01:22Z")
> [@gatopescado](#): > > I know I couldn’t _do my job_ if I were in Iowa. And is the President able to do his job in Wisconsin, where he is to day? Will the Vice-President be able to do his job tomorrow when he is in Iowa talking to a hand picked crowd of GOP stalwarts and old guys who pine for the return of HR Gross (Iowa Congressman from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s who NEVER voted for an appropriation bill)? You comment was, as you know full well **gatopescado** , a gratuitous cheap shot and groundless smart-assery. It adds nothing to this thread except giving me the opportunity to put poor old Congressman Gross’s head on a pike and march it around for a while. In the meantime, as has been pointed out by several, today’s vote was not a vote on either version of the proposed anti-buggery amendment but was a vote on ending debate. Also, all three of the condemned Senators have constituencies that are strongly socially conservative and a vote might well cost them dear. I would rather keep two of the three around for a while. Every thing I know about Senator Miller indicates that he is at best a Dixiecrat and at worst a wolf in sheep’s clothing and the toady of the Republican Central Committee. After his stand up and let ‘em have it fight on entering the war in Iraq I’m willing to forgive Senator Byrd an awful lot. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/18 "2004-07-14T23:54:13Z")
I should point out that oftentimes the reason people don’t switch parties is just momentum: you stick with the ticket you have instead of confusing voters. In that way, some of these guys are Democrats mostly via historical accident more than anything else. > [@](#): > > Sununu (R-NH). I’d like him a lot more if his win hadn’t depended on so many dirty trick operations. Of course, I also have to admit that the moron Dem Governor candidate who ran on a pro-tax platform in NH was a real fuckup too. He was so bad that Republicans actually printed up fake “pro-Shaheen” signs with both Shaheen and him on them to drag her down with him. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/19 "2004-07-15T00:03:37Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > **Binarydrone** , I think what \*\*Yeticus Rex \*\* means when he says the FMA is a “state issue v. federal issue” is that matters relating to marriage (e.g., the minimum age, licensing requirements, etc.) are traditionally the province of state law. Conservative Republicans (and conservative Democrats) are usually against expanding federal power at the expense of the states. Thus, ostensibly, many conservative lawmakers–even if they are opposed to gay marriage–would be against the FMA because it represents a massive federal intrusion into the states’ control over marriage. In their eyes, that’s a bigger sin. Thank you for expanding on my one-liner…I should have added a little more substance to it…my apologies to all. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/20 "2004-07-15T00:53:33Z")
It doesn’t matter people. The pubbies knew they didn’t have the votes. It was purely a political ploy. So it really doesn’t matter if a few demis played to their electorate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134.md?page=2)