# Senators Robert Byrd (D-WV), Zell Miller (D-GA), Ben Nelson (D-NE). **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134 "2004-07-14T20:43:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/21 "2004-07-15T00:57:37Z")
I would like to thank Senator Mikulski (D) and Senator Sarbanes (D) of Maryland for voting against the FMA. I had no doubt that’s the way they would vote, as they both responded speedily to my letters about said amendment, and I’m not even able to vote. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/22 "2004-07-15T01:07:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The pubbies knew they didn’t have the votes. It was purely a political ploy. Y’know, I might’ve agreed with you if it weren’t for the fact that I’m absolutely positive that many, many, MANY Republicans didn’t feel strongly and passionately on this issue. I’m sure a good deal of social conservatives really do believe their own words. Unfortunately. Glad to see this idiotic issue die. Well, okay, as long as we’ve got Religious Fundamentalists dominating the far right of the Republican party, the issue will never _die_, but at least now it’s been rendered unconscious. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/23 "2004-07-15T01:08:51Z")
Uh… ignore my double-negative, please. I’m a little punchy… ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/24 "2004-07-15T01:10:59Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Y’know, I might’ve agreed with you if it weren’t for the fact that I’m absolutely positive that many, many, MANY Republicans didn’t feel strongly and passionately on this issue. I’m sure a good deal of social conservatives really do believe their own words. > > snip… By votes…I meant in the Senate. It was a foregone conclusion that it would go no where. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/25 "2004-07-15T01:23:59Z")
Oh, well, yeah. _I_ didn’t sweat it, at least. However, a good - and unpleasant - number of those gentlemen actually do think that allowing gay marriage will cause THE END OF LIFE AS WE KNOW IT. I don’t know how many of them fear DIVINE retribution, but at the very least we have a case of sticking to tradition for the sake of sticking to tradition. I just wish one o’ them would be consistent… marriage is about kids? Why, then, endorse a bill that takes away marriage benefits to childless couples. Marriage is a religious institution? Well, then, you’d certainly have no qualms about taking away any SECULAR endorsement or benefits, right, Senator? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/26 "2004-07-15T01:29:12Z")
I should also note that the ploy here was even STATED as being to get Kerry and Edwards to vote on the amendment. But not just to get them on the record. The Republicans have also been doing things like this just to try and screw up Kerry and Edward’s campaign schedules. This is why McCain has recently been complaining that Congress should just go home: most everything currently still scheduled till the next recess are “ploy” bills, not bills the leadership is seriously trying to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/27 "2004-07-15T01:38:04Z")
Don’t worry. It will be back. So sayeth Senator Frist. I guess he assumes that the senate will go more pubbie. But we know what assume means don’t we. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/28 "2004-07-15T01:38:21Z")
Really? Y’know, I wish I could say I was surprised. Shit, the Presidential races are turning into a WWE grudge match. Hmm… “And The Masked Dubya has just smacked Mr. Perfect Hair with a sledgehammer! The ref missed it, the ref missed it! Now the Supreme Court is ruling… wait! Wait! Mauler McCain is running down the ramp!” Jesus, it would make bank. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/29 "2004-07-15T01:40:26Z")
That was in response to Apos… Reeder: Eh, of course they’ll keep trying. People kept fighting the Civil Rights movement long after it had picked up steam, too. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/30 "2004-07-15T01:44:27Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Sen. Ben Nelson, like Miller, you vote consistently with the Republicans on issue after issue from being Anti-Choice to being Anti-Gay. I have to wonder why you are a Democrat. Excuse me, but that’s a bunch of nonsense. Check out the ratings of US Senators by the liberal [Americans for Democratic Action](http://www.adaction.org/voting.html). In 2002, Ben Nelson voted the ADA’s way ‘only’ 50% of the time, but only one GOP Senator did so more than 35% of the time (Chafee at 45%). So by ADA standards, Nelson was to the left of _every Republican in the Senate_. And that was down from 2001, when Nelson’s ADA rating was 70%. So give him a break. He’s about as Democratic a Senator as we can hope to re-elect, out there in the middle of the GOP heartland. Now Zell, OTOH - we should have kicked him out the moment he endorsed Bush for President. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/31 "2004-07-15T01:59:49Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > I should also note that the ploy here was even STATED as being to get Kerry and Edwards to vote on the amendment. But not just to get them on the record. The Republicans have also been doing things like this just to try and screw up Kerry and Edward’s campaign schedules. This is why McCain has recently been complaining that Congress should just go home: most everything currently still scheduled till the next recess are “ploy” bills, not bills the leadership is seriously trying to pass. That’s why Bob Dole resigned in his ill-fated bid to unseat Clinton, much of what was going on in the Senate was just crap to tie up Bob Dole and prevent Bob Dole from winning. Not that Bob Dole had any chance in hell of winning the election, even if the Senate had been 99% Republican, Bob Dole still couldn’t have beaten Clinton. Now, had Bob Dole done the Pepsi and Viagra commercials _before_ Bob Dole tried to run against Clinton, then Bob Dole might have had a chance, since we saw Bob Dole as a warm and funny Bob Dole in those ads and not the cold, lifeless Bob Dole, Bob Dole was on the campaign trail. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/32 "2004-07-15T02:08:59Z")
Hey, man, Bob Dole spoke at my school (where he made the infamous “Brooklyn Dodgers - Joke or Not?” utterance). He wasn’t _cold_, he was just… okay, he was just old. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/33 "2004-07-15T02:14:30Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Hey, man, Bob Dole spoke at my school (where he made the infamous “Brooklyn Dodgers - Joke or Not?” utterance). He wasn’t _cold_, he was just… okay, he was just old. Aw, come on, we know that you _really_ want to say that Bob Dole looked like the only reason Bob Dole was still moving was because someone had injected some of Strom Thurmond’s bathwater into Bob Dole’s slowly cooling corpse. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/34 "2004-07-15T02:32:24Z")
\ Tuckerfan, will you marry me? \ ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/35 "2004-07-15T02:35:25Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Excuse me, but that’s a bunch of nonsense. Well several other groups disagree [Vote Smart](http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=CNIP0639) > [@](#): > > On the votes that the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 7 percent of the time. > > 2001On the votes that the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League considered to be the most important in 2001, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 0 percent of the time. > > 1996-2003On the votes that the Planned Parenthood (Senate) considered to be the most important, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 20 percent of the time. > > 2001-2002Based on the votes, and co-sponsorships the Human Rights Campaign considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 43 percent of the time. > > 2003On the votes that the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 47 percent of the time. > > 2003On the votes that the The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence considered to be the most important as of 2003, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 0 percent of the time. Conversely > [@](#): > > 2003On the votes that the National Retail Federation considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 88 percent of the time. > > 2003On the votes that the Christian Coalition considered to be the most important in 2003 , Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 83 percent of the time. > > 2003On the votes that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 86 percent of the time. > > 2002On the votes that the Conservative Index - The John Birch Society considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 35 percent of the time. > > 2003On the votes that the Family Research Council considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 86 percent of the time. > > 2003On the votes that the Concerned Women for America considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator Nelson voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/36 "2004-07-15T02:40:53Z")
> [@TeaElle](#): > > \ > > Tuckerfan, will you marry me? > > \ Saturday afternoon work for you? Because I’m pretty much tied up until then. If Saturday’s out, then how about Sunday? I’m free all day Sunday. Oh, wait, that probably sounds desperate, doesn’t it? Sorry, it’s just that at my age, the offers are getting fewer and fewer… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/37 "2004-07-15T16:25:32Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Well several other groups disagree > > [Vote Smart](http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=CNIP0639) And cherry-picking doesn’t suit you, friend. Looking at the Vote Smart guide, I see that the Brady folks didn’t like Nelson (which you pointed out), but right next to that was that the Gun Owners of America weren’t crazy about him either. You can dis him because the fundie Concerned Women for America liked him, but right next to that is his ratings from the American Association of University Women (AAUW). They liked him too. The fundie Family Research Council liked him, as you pointed out; so did the Children’s Defense Fund. You didn’t mention labor; his record there wasn’t perfect, but on the whole, he racked up some pretty positive ratings from unions. He coulda done a lot better on environmental issues. He voted the ACLU’s way 60% of the time. And so forth. Basically, he’s up and down, no question about it. But how does he stack up against actual Republicans? I don’t see that he’s exactly turned into one yet. Somebody as middle-of-the-road as he is doesn’t have any sort of place in the GOP; if we’d like to lure GOP moderates like Chafee, Snowe, and Collins away from the Dark Side, we can’t exactly go kicking people like Nelson out. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134/38 "2004-07-15T21:11:39Z")
Don’t forget to add Nebraska’s own [Chuck Hagel](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/03/26/moderates/index_np.html) to that list! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senators-robert-byrd-d-wv-zell-miller-d-ga-ben-nelson-d-ne/255134.md?page=1)