# Sending out unsolicited advertisements via email, what would you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 24, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194 "2010-10-24T16:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sticks\_and\_Scones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sticks_and_scones/32/16951_2.png) [@Sticks\_and\_Scones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sticks_and_Scones)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/1 "2010-10-24T16:21:14Z")
I make jewelry and sell it at many different art and craft shows. I apply to most of these shows via snail mail and receive confirmations via email. Recently I got an email confirmation along with all of the other crafters who were attending. And I know this because their email addresses were listed right along with mine in the list of people that the email was addressed to. Then, a couple of days after the show I got an advertisement from one of the crafters that had been at the show and just decided without permission to spam everyone else that had received the confirmation. First of all, the show coordinator should have used BCC instead of CC so that the emails of the crafters weren’t visible. Second of all, the Avon Lady never asked for my email address or if I was at all interested in her stuff before sending me an email about it. Should I say anything to either the show coordinator or the Avon Lady or should I just let it go? ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/2 "2010-10-24T18:28:19Z")
Well, you could hit a “reply all” button and give your two cents - something along the lines of “Spamming the list of attendees to the craft show is not a very classy thing to do - and putting our addresses out there in a cc instead of a bcc for everyone to see makes us all potential victims of more spam and email viruses. This was not only rude but also illegal. Please delete my email address from any further spam you feel compelled to foist on other attendees.” ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/3 "2010-10-24T18:35:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Should I say anything to either the show coordinator or the Avon Lady or should I just let it go? Get out your flamethrower, and set it to “scorch eyebrows”, and aim it at Avon Lady. Tell her that this is completely unacceptable. Compose another email to the show co-ordinator, and forward Avon Lady’s spam to her. Say “this is what happens when you don’t use BCC for addresses”. Copy Avon’s regional manager, too, if you can find an email handy. This woman is making all the Avon sales reps look bad. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/4 "2010-10-24T19:19:56Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > This was not only rude but also illegal. Cite? I wish it were illegal, but I doubt that it is. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/5 "2010-10-24T19:31:51Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Cite? > > I wish it were illegal, but I doubt that it is. [Here](http://www.spamlaws.com/illegal-spam.html). I know when I was studying Web Design at UNLV, the instructors drilled into us the seriousness of not sending spam. I don’t have the documents handy, but it was pretty clear - down to the maximum number of people you can email at one time, the opt-out clause had to be attached, etc. Granted, it is not enforced as it should be, but I believe the laws are pretty clear for at least a valid complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Yarster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@Yarster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yarster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/6 "2010-10-24T22:41:16Z")
I don’t know about the vicious attack approach. Personally, I would send a note to the show organizer and CC the Avon lady to nicely request that in the future, the organizer BCC everyone because you are not interested in being spammed as part of a mailing list. The fact the Avon lady is CC’d should make it clear it is directed at her without it being a direct attack, especially since you are asking nicely. Why everyone goes to ‘flamethrower’ mode is strange to me. Avon lady may be an older woman who is not really that familiar with the use of e-mail (like my grandmother) and doesn’t really have a feel for etiquette. I usually give a spammer like this one free pass. If it happens a second time, then ‘flame on’ ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/7 "2010-10-24T23:00:45Z")
Report her to her ISP. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/8 "2010-10-25T00:23:24Z")
It is illegal, and while I wouldn’t necessarily jump to reporting her to the FTC right off the bat, I would write a (calm, polite) note that CAN SPAM laws apply here, it is illegal to send commercial email to anyone who hasn’t A\> opted-in, or B\> already have an existing business relationship with you, and that fines are on the order of $16,000 **per email** (so, to my understanding, one spam to a list of 20 could cost you $320,000). And then point Avon Lady to this: [http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus61-can-spam-act-Compliance-Guide-for-Business](http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus61-can-spam-act-Compliance-Guide-for-Business) Opt-in is **not** optional for commercial email. If you don’t have permission, it’s spam. ETA: Oh, and prepare for her/them to get defensive no matter how polite you are. I had one guy attempt to mock me for “threatening a lawsuit” over his spam (I actually offered my services to bring him into compliance). Until I pointed out that I wouldn’t be suing him, as the FTC is responsible for enforcing CAN SPAM laws. ---
**Author:** ![Sticks\_and\_Scones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sticks_and_scones/32/16951_2.png) [@Sticks\_and\_Scones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sticks_and_Scones)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/9 "2010-10-25T02:45:06Z")
Thanks, guys. I just sent very polite “maybe you weren’t aware…” emails to both of them and I included both links for reference. Hopefully it’s the end of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Sticks\_and\_Scones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sticks_and_scones/32/16951_2.png) [@Sticks\_and\_Scones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sticks_and_Scones)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/10 "2010-10-25T13:07:46Z")
The Avon Lady sent me a nice apology this morning and said that she hadn’t planned on sending more than one email anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/11 "2010-10-25T22:37:43Z")
Heck, send her my way, I’d be happy to bring her into compliance too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/12 "2010-10-25T23:00:40Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > It is illegal, and while I wouldn’t necessarily jump to reporting her to the FTC right off the bat, I would write a (calm, polite) note that CAN SPAM laws apply here, it is illegal to send commercial email to anyone who hasn’t A\> opted-in, or B\> already have an existing business relationship with you, and that fines are on the order of $16,000 **per email** (so, to my understanding, one spam to a list of 20 could cost you $320,000). > > Opt-in is **not** optional for commercial email. If you don’t have permission, it’s spam. This is not true. Per your own link, CAN SPAM requires **opt-out** , not **opt-in**. > [@](#): > > Your message must include a clear and conspicuous explanation of how the recipient can opt out of getting email from you in the future. > [@](#): > > You must honor a recipient’s opt-out request within 10 business days. Once someone has opted out, you cannot send them a commercial email, but there is no restriction on sending to any mailing list, as long as you give them the opportunity to opt out. This is true for the U.S. only. Many European countries do have an opt-in policy for commercial email. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/13 "2010-10-25T23:14:14Z")
The opt-out rules apply only after someone has opted-in. (But yes, you are \*\*also \*\*required to process opt-outs in a clear and timely manner.) Here’s the text of the CAN SPAM Act: [http://www.spamlaws.com/federal/108s877.shtml](http://www.spamlaws.com/federal/108s877.shtml) In particular note the section on affirmative consent. > [@](#): > > ``` > In this Act: > > (1) AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT- The term 'affirmative consent', when used with respect to a commercial electronic mail message, means that-- > > (A) the recipient expressly consented to receive the message, either in response to a clear and conspicuous request for such consent or at the recipient's own initiative; and > > (B) if the message is from a party other than the party to which the recipient communicated such consent, the recipient was given clear and conspicuous notice at the time the consent was communicated that the recipient's electronic mail address could be transferred to such other party for the purpose of initiating commercial electronic mail messages. > > ``` You cannot, for example, buy a mailing list from a broker and send commercial email to it. You have to build a list from people who have affirmatively consented to receive email from you. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/14 "2010-10-25T23:20:53Z")
It is, after all, referred to as _unsolicited_ commercial email. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sending-out-unsolicited-advertisements-via-email-what-would-you-do/558194/15 "2010-10-26T00:44:07Z")
You have cited the definition of affirmative consent. In the Act, the term is used to explain that certain opt-out requirements do not apply if the recipient has given affirmative consent. Nowhere in CAN SPAM is affirmative consent required. The introduction of the Act states its three basic public policy requirements: > [@](#): > > (1) there is a substantial government interest in regulation of commercial electronic mail on a nationwide basis; > > (2) senders of commercial electronic mail should not mislead recipients as to the source or content of such mail; and > > (3) recipients of commercial electronic mail have a right to decline to receive additional commercial electronic mail from the same source. Note that it says “right to decline,” not “right not to receive.” I am very familiar with CAN SPAM, and it does not include a requirement for affirmative consent. I’m also familiar with the anti-spam laws of other countries, and I know that some of them do require opt-in, but the U.S. is not one of them. The [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003) gives a good summary, with many cites, stating, “The CAN-SPAM Act is occasionally referred to as the “You-Can-Spam” Act because the bill explicitly legitimizes many types of e-mail spam. In particular, it does not require e-mailers to get permission before they send marketing messages.” If you have a cite to a provision of CAN SPAM that requires opt-in, I’m willing to have ignorance fought.