The stuff I was saying was “oviously true” was this stuff:
I think that’s pretty undeniable. As to Wilson himself…it might not be a slam dunk, but given his history, it’s not an ourageous suggestion, and I have a hard time believing that racism had nothing to do with it. It might not have been entirely conscious, but I think think his outburst showed a sense of entitlement and disrespect that we’ve never seen before.
Same link:
Circumstantial evidence of racism there, though not of it being behind that particular display of childishness.
And that wasn’t what Carter was talking about, people! Read, willya? He was referring to the hate campaign in general, not this particular incident. If you’re going to criticize him, at least be right about what it is you’re criticizing him for, m’kay?
That said, I haven’t seen that Obama-hatred is any more intense or more visceral than the Clinton-hatred (both kinds) that we saw during the last Dem administration and the last Dem primaries. Could be I just need to visit the South more often, though.
Look up the video. Jimmy sounds nothing like second term Reagan. Hell, he still strings sentences together better than Bush ever could.
I’m inclined to believe mister Carter. He’s built a decades long reputation as a thoughtful, honorable man. The right has nothing to match him, so I guess your sour grapes are to be expected.
This was inevitable. When in trouble reach for that race card. Why, if Barack Obama had been white his health reforms would have passed both Houses triumphantly and a joyous populace even now dancing in the streets and celebrating the dawning of a new age.
Yeah, right. For fuck’s sake, Carter is an idiot, always has been.
What does health care reform have to do with anything?
I don’t agree with a lot of what he says nowadays, but if he’s an idiot, the bar’s set pretty freakin low to be considered an idiot.
How is it obvious to you that Wilson’s outburst was based on racism and rooted in fears of a Black president?
ETA: Nevermind, I see you already addressed the question.
Do you have a cite for this?
But now you’ve excised the first part of the quote, which you quoted in full the first time, which is this: “Former President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday that U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson’s outburst to President Barack Obama during a speech to Congress last week was an act “based on racism” and rooted in fears of a black president.”
This is the part that’s giving me trouble. I think it’s a very grave accusation of Mr. Wilson to say that his action was “based on racism.” But if that’s not part of what you consider “obviously true,” okay. Because that, specifically, is the part that is not “obviously true” to me. The rest, as I’ve said, is not specific and not disprovable. I have no problem with what the former president said about the broader issue.
Again, can you give me a little more information on his history? There are serious value judgments being made about the guy, and I have no idea what people are basing them on.
Y’know, before you start criticizing anyone else’s reading comprehension, perhaps you should check your own. According to the link, "Former President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday that U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson’s outburst to President Barack Obama during a speech to Congress last week was an act ‘based on racism’ and rooted in fears of a black president."
Although he goes on to talk about a wider issue, at that point he is clearly talking about this particular incident. So if you’re going to defend him, at least be right about what it is you’re defending, m’kay?
From previously linked BBC article
Not even if they’re funny? That statement reveals more about his sense of humor than it does about any bigotry.
Kudos to ralphie for his op; I hate it when threads are started with a bunch of words and links to other pages and cites and reason. I like my op’s short, to the point, and filled with bilious disgust.
:rolleyes:
Shut the fuck up you talking point spouting blockhead.
Poor welfare queens.
Are you suggesting that Reagan was senile in his second term as president?
There is no inconsistency there, m’kay? You’re trying too hard.
Yes, I suspect that even Barack Obama laughs at distasteful jokes, though he’d be too politically savvy to do so in public.
Jodi…
Wilson’s comments about Thurmond’s daughter.
Wilson’s relationship with Maurice Bessinger, known racist, segregationist, and barbecue guy.
I lived in SC during the time mentioned discussed in the Bessinger article. IMO, that article gives a very generous outline of Bessinger’s behavior. Wilson called him a “patriot.”
As far as I know, no congressperson ever interrupted Bush during a speech, let alone a joint session.
The animosity can’t be explained with political motivations, because the people who express it don’t seem to have the slightest clue of Obama’s actual policies, or the circumstances around them. People I know who otherwise seem to have a modicum of intelligence start to foam at the mouth at the mere mention of Obama’s name. (And these are people who normally don’t pay much attention to politics or government. These are people who usually don’t have political views strongly one way or the other.)
When I ask them why, they start saying vague and general things about him being a “socialist.” They clearly don’t even know what that means; they certainly have no idea that the administration is hewing to the center on the health care thing. In fact, Emanuel recently in a meeting called liberal interest group leaders “fucking stupid” for insisting on the public option. I haven’t met one of these people that are getting so upset about Obama who knows the slightest about what’s being discussed. But they’re perfectly content to mimic Palin and her “death squad” nonsense.
When I hear someone like this who sees Obama on TV call him a “fucking nigger” without even listening to what he’s saying, I’ve really got to wonder why.
I seem to recall the protests that occurred when Republicans called people “unpatriotic” for opposing Bush administration policies. Is “racist” the new “unpatriotic”?
It is possible, if not likely, that Republicans oppose Obama simply because he’s a Democrat, and I for one am getting tired of that word being thrown around like it’s impossible to oppose anything Obama or his party wants to do simply because that’s what the opposition does.
Was it racism for someone to oppose Obama’s policies before he was President? Does that make everybody who ever ran against him or didn’t support his legislation at all levels racist? How about the Democrats that ran against him in primaries? Are they racist? Since the standard of racism has apparently been reduced to opposition of Barack Obama and his policies, I respectfully submit that everybody in the United States is now demonstrably a little bit racist.
Or, just perhaps, we could save the accusations of racism for instances when it is demonstrably true, rather than cheapening it and hurling it about with impunity.
Thank you. Those certainly make me less likely to reserve judgment. (Regarding Thurmond’s illegitimate child with a black maid: “Sometimes these things just go on.” Sometimes these things just go on???)
Re: Bessemer: When my sister first moved to the South (North Carolina) and I was visiting from Seattle, we drove to Charleston. I told her on the way home I wanted to try some authentic Southern barbeque, so we pulled off the road in Columbia completely at random.
It was one of Bessemer’s restaurants. There were pictures of Confederate generals on the wall, a Confederate flag on the ceiling, and a rack full of books and pamphlets for sale all about how blacks didn’t really mind slavery, because they were better off back then, and how separate but equal would have worked just fine if it had been implemented right. You could almost hear Duelling Banjos. I was amazed, appalled, and entertained. My sister, who had been trying to convince me how wonderful and modern the New South was, was just appalled. I of course wondered Who the hell is this guy?? and Wiki’d him when we got home. I definitely think less of anyone would describe Bessemer as a patriot.
South Carolina is weird. And not in a good way.
It means they want to hold power, not govern. I see the claim as petty and small, but not racist. The Crazy American Right aren’t all upset because Obama’s not white (although it’s clear some is from the dumb things written on poorly spelled signs), some are upset because Obama’s not a Republican.
Surely you haven’t forgotten how petty and small Republicans were during the awful years of peace and prosperity under Clinton, right?
When the Clintons were pushing their health care, were people marching on Washington with signs calling them communists and nazis? I don’t remember.
It’s on his wiki page:
I was addressing the OP’s assertion that Carter claimed that “anybody who disagrees with Obama” is racist (a contention I notice you don’t seem too concerned about challenging). I just looked at Carter’s exact words. I didn’t even really notice the Joe Wilson stuff, I was examing the exact quote. Given Wilson’s history, though, it’s not a stretch.
“Grave” and “serious” accusations were made about Jimmy Carter by the OP, but that doesn’ts eem to bother you.
Wilson’s history includes membership in a group called Sons of Confederate Veterans which endorses the “confederate cause,” including secession and slavery, rabiid support of the Confederate flag and the above cited attacks on Strom Thurmond’s daughter.
Is it enough to convict of being a white supremacist? Probably not? Is it enough to make his racial feelings questionable? I think so.
The “wider issue” is specifically what the OP was complaining about.