# Senior Cardinal says access to the Eucharist is a gift, not a right for Catholics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 4, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679 "2005-10-04T01:33:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/1 "2005-10-04T01:33:40Z")
[Is this a commonly held view?](http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.html?wire=D8D0K7880.html) > [@](#): > > October 03,2005 | VATICAN CITY – A senior cardinal played down the shortage of clergymen that has left many churches without priests to celebrate Mass, saying at the start of a meeting of the world’s bishops Monday that access to the Eucharist was a gift, not a right for Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/2 "2005-10-04T01:46:14Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [Is this a commonly held view?](http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.html?wire=D8D0K7880.html) That the body and blood of Christ and the spiritual grace that accompanies them are a gift and not something everyone is entitled to? I can’t speak for the common people, but _I_ certainly agree with that. 🙂 And if someone who’d like that gift is having trouble receiving it at a Catholic church, I urge you to head to your local Episcopal church instead. 😃 I just met my Episcopal Prosletyzing Quota for like, the next 11 years. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/3 "2005-10-04T02:01:48Z")
Reception of communion is not available to all Catholics as of right. For a start you aren’t allowed to receive communion if you have not complied with the Church’s fasting rules (as pathetically lax as they are). More importantly, you can’t receive communion if you’re in a state of mortal sin. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/4 "2005-10-04T02:23:05Z")
Given that a basic church law is observance of Mass on Sunday and major feasts, (Canon 1246) the cardinal’s postion strikes me as odd, but given that the speech was in Latin, decribed as “lengthy,” and served as the opening remarks (rather than the summary remarks) of what could well be a rather feisty meeting, I would guess that there has been some nuance lost in the translation and that, in the abbreviated way stated in the Slate article, it is not a “commonly held” belief. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/5 "2005-10-04T15:28:24Z")
Does this have something to do with whether Catholic politicians should be denied communion if they support abortion rights, etc? Or is it just a case of the Church needing to be less generous in handing out communion because they’re running low on loaves and fishes? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/6 "2005-10-04T15:37:27Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Does this have something to do with whether Catholic politicians should be denied communion if they support abortion rights, etc? Or is it just a case of the Church needing to be less generous in handing out communion because they’re running low on loaves and fishes? Little wafers for Roman Catholics. Little squares of bread saturated in wine for Eastern Rite Catholics. No fish. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/7 "2005-10-04T16:12:51Z")
He may have been expressing a philosophical sentiment that communon is a gift from God rather than something which people are entitled to by right. I’m not sure but I think it’s possible he was trying to make a point about how communion should be _understood_ by Catholics rather than how it should be dispensed, ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/8 "2005-10-04T17:24:10Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > That the body and blood of Christ and the spiritual grace that accompanies them are a gift and not something everyone is entitled to? > > I can’t speak for the common people, but _I_ certainly agree with that. 🙂 > > And if someone who’d like that gift is having trouble receiving it at a Catholic church, I urge you to head to your local Episcopal church instead. 😃 I certainly appreciate your kind invitation. But from my point of view, the ordination of the priests in my local Episcopal church is suspect, given the whole Archbishop Matthew Parker unpleasantness. So from my Catholic view, that’s not REALLY the Body and Blood of Christ you’ve got over there. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/9 "2005-10-04T17:27:15Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Little wafers for Roman Catholics. Little squares of bread saturated in wine for Eastern Rite Catholics. No fish. Sure, but come on. Wouldn’t you enjoy it if they stuck some smoked salmon on the cracker? Little Sunday morning breakfast treat. I’m telling you, I should be Pope. I’d have attendance back up in no time. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/10 "2005-10-04T17:32:25Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Sure, but come on. Wouldn’t you enjoy it if they stuck some smoked salmon on the cracker? Little Sunday morning breakfast treat. I’m telling you, I should be Pope. I’d have attendance back up in no time. Eastern Rite Catholics (f which I am a lapsed example) already get booze. If that won’t bring 'em in, nothing will. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/11 "2005-10-04T17:36:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I certainly appreciate your kind invitation. But from my point of view, the ordination of the priests in my local Episcopal church is suspect, given the whole Archbishop Matthew Parker unpleasantness. So from my Catholic view, that’s not REALLY the Body and Blood of Christ you’ve got over there. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the RCC sure seems to regard Episcopal ordinations in general as valid, whatever problem they may have with specific instances. After all, it’s my understanding that married Episcopal priests who convert to Roman Catholicism are regarded as Roman Catholic priests rather than laypersons, despite the marriage vows. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/12 "2005-10-04T17:45:16Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Eastern Rite Catholics (f which I am a lapsed example) already get booze. If that won’t bring 'em in, nothing will. So do Catholics. The problem is that it’s just a sip of cheap wine. Early Sunday mass calls for Bloody Marys or mimosas. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/13 "2005-10-04T17:56:52Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Little wafers for Roman Catholics. Little squares of bread saturated in wine for Eastern Rite Catholics. No fish. That was a slightly waggish metaphor. What I’m realy asking about is a shortage of priests vs more political issues. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/14 "2005-10-04T18:09:44Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but the RCC sure seems to regard Episcopal ordinations in general as valid, whatever problem they may have with specific instances. After all, it’s my understanding that married Episcopal priests who convert to Roman Catholicism are regarded as Roman Catholic priests rather than laypersons, despite the marriage vows. Nope. Married Episcopal priests that convert to the Roman church must be ordained in the Roman church. It’s true that in those cases, they are granted a dispensation from the operation of the ordinary rule that the presence of the sacrament of matrimony is an impediment to the reception of Holy Orders. So they’re only “regarded as Roman Catholic priests” after they’ve been ordained. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/15 "2005-10-04T18:17:36Z")
I didn’t read the whole article since there was a subscription involve, but given the context of the statement was a shortage of priests, it seems that what the Bishop is saying is that \*\*access \*\*to the Eucharist is not a right. Although “right” might be a stretch, should active, elligible Catholics feel like it is a gift that they have access to the Eucharist? Seems to me that a Church which cares about its flock would care enough to say that the onus is on the Church to make sure parishoners can receive Communion. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/16 "2005-10-04T19:09:57Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Early Sunday mass calls for Bloody Marys . Errrrrr…Bloody Marys, while an excellent idea, might not be in the best taste at a Catholic Church. Maybe if they called them Bloody Elizabeths? Anyway, I don’t know, but I can understand the idea of communion not being a right. But I don’t see how it bears on the issue of a lack of priests. If it’s a gift, isn’t it a gift _from God_ ? And shouldn’t it be available to all he has found worthy of it? And if it’s not, just because there aren’t enough of Santa’s Little Helpers to pass it out to those he intended it for, isn’t that a matter of the church not doing its job? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/17 "2005-10-04T21:03:43Z")
I have to laugh at that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/18 "2005-10-05T00:14:43Z")
Actually, the Church rules for active participants is that you are obligated to partake of the Eucharist at least once, during the Paschal season of every year, and are encouraged to partake every time you can. Ditto the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession and Penance, for you old-timers). But it is not something to which you are entitled on-demand, or lightly. **RTF** , In 1896 Pope Leo XIII issued a Bull, binding on the RCC clergy and laity, to the effect that the Anglican Communion had not maintained the Apostolic Succession and thus the orders and sacraments were not valid for Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/19 "2005-10-05T00:57:20Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I didn’t read the whole article since there was a subscription involve, . There’s also the option to watch a 20 second ad and afterward you get access to the entire site for a day. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679/20 "2005-10-05T01:10:48Z")
> [@astro](#): > > There’s also the option to watch a 20 second ad and afterward you get access to the entire site for a day. No time-share thrown in for good measure? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-cardinal-says-access-to-the-eucharist-is-a-gift-not-a-right-for-catholics/324679.md?page=2)