# senior who will have a degree in IT...currently trying to get experience...feel like giving up **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 26, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523 "2018-10-26T00:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523/21 "2018-10-27T17:45:02Z")
IT organizations in large companies typically demonstrate tribal behavior in the extreme. This is because IT is a bit weird compared to many other disciplines. The knowledge, in even the deepest most technical areas, is all out there like anywhere else (medicine, aviation, whatever), but the application of it is often unique and/or highly specialized, potentially involving valuable trade secrets and other innuendo with company-wide implications. This leads to a 2-tiered strata in IT, where management and a relatively small number of veteran, senior staffers allow accessions only in carefully, hand-picked circumstances. So basically what you have is the help desk and everyone else. And it is cutthroat. If you want into one of the biggies (Google, Lockheed, Amazon, whatever) target your company/location and get one of the entry level jobs. Even that will not be easy, as you have already learned. You might need to stalk some people who work there, make friends-of-friends and that sort of thing. Be relentless, get your foot in the door and start career building from there. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523/22 "2018-10-27T18:53:19Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > IT organizations in large companies typically demonstrate tribal behavior in the extreme. This is because IT is a bit weird compared to many other disciplines. The knowledge, in even the deepest most technical areas, is all out there like anywhere else (medicine, aviation, whatever), but the application of it is often unique and/or highly specialized, potentially involving valuable trade secrets and other innuendo with company-wide implications. This leads to a 2-tiered strata in IT, where management and a relatively small number of veteran, senior staffers allow accessions only in carefully, hand-picked circumstances. In essence, you’re saying that certain people in IT become gatekeepers to the IT department. This is actually not different from other fields at all. Perhaps the implementation looks a bit different, but the situation is exactly the same. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523/23 "2018-11-03T20:11:45Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > In essence, you’re saying that certain people in IT become gatekeepers to the IT department. This is actually not different from other fields at all. Perhaps the implementation looks a bit different, but the situation is exactly the same. To imply that a UPS driver acends to UPS regional manager in any way remotely resembling how a help desk technician ascends to VP of VR development at Google is astonishingly disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523/24 "2018-11-05T06:12:40Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Have you considered gaining experience in the military? > [Cyber Operations](https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/computers-and-technology/cyber-operations-officer.html) > [Information Technology](https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/computers-and-technology/signal-officer.html) > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I was going to suggest a civilian position in the military or the intelligence agencies, since these jobs aren’t going to be outsourced, at least not overseas. A lot of graduates overlook government. Federal is [USA Jobs](https://www.usajobs.gov/). Check your state government or surrounding states. Military sites from Bear above. Get in the door first then move to something more in line with your wants. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523/25 "2018-11-05T15:32:41Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Aren’t a lot of IT jobs, especially help desk jobs, outsourced to other countries? > > And a lot of companies are moving towards “cloud” based infrastructure. Which means the “IT guy” going around fixing stuff is rapidly being displaced by Amazon and Google. > > I was at a Meetup a few weeks ago for CTOs and they were talking about how they interview something like 400 “full stack engineers” from places like Russia, Ukraine and Argentina to pick like 2 with the equivalent of MIT educations who will work for peanuts. A lot of entry level IT jobs are automated. Help desk in particular is a bad place to look - between outsourcing and automation - and Service Desks needing fewer people as the population of workers has gotten more computer savvy and the hardware has gotten more dependable - there are plenty of people who have 20 years on a helpdesk looking for work. It doesn’t take much to send a reimage over a computer that has a problem - and helpdesks generally don’t “help” any longer - look up how to do it on the internet. Entry level security is still very good - as the need for security people is still large and its harder to automate an ever changing world of attack vectors. But the CTOs I work with really don’t like getting anyone from Russia or the Ukraine, or Argentina - too much security risk, little chance of prosecution. Of course, my clients have been health care, utilities, eCommerce - places that are in deep shit if someone gets inside access to systems. We are running serious background checks on everyone nowadays. Less worried about “have you smoked pot” than “do you show up on any international lists.” I’m sort of surprised you were talking to CTOs who would take that sort of risk in this climate. Following up with an MBA is a good idea since management positions that can understand business needs and budgets is fairly deep - if your eventual goal is IT management. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523/26 "2018-11-08T01:29:40Z")
Have you tried [PurpleSquirrel](https://www.purplesquirrel.io/)? I have not used it myself but it may be a way to get your resume to whoever it matters in a company of your choice. Anybody out here who has used PS? It might help the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523/27 "2018-11-08T02:06:01Z")
If you’re willing to move, check out Cognizant. They’ve been growing like crazy, which means hiring like crazy, and when I worked for them it was quite a good company. And poking around their own “incoming graduates” programs will give you an idea about how to search for other companies with similar ones. Experience wasn’t needed; some of the people who worked in the same site as me weren’t even CompSci or IT graduates. The team I shared an office with included a graduate in Business who had given them their resume thinking “accountant” but been given a job as a “functional analyst” instead (the people who translate the client’s ‘I want this green’ into a tech’s ‘RGB #006400’). A portfolio going beyond schoolwork was nice; again not needed. And while our local HR dude was a jerk\*, company policies included stuff such as paying for certs, counting time spent in class to finish a master’s as work time, etc. They provided a ton of in-house self-study materials too: they really wanted people to grow with them. - I left because the combo of “HR dude who doesn’t allow me to work from home despite company policies allowing it”, “direct manager who might as well be made of stone” and “1h actual work every week” was depressing me. Me no like depression (nobody does, it sucks the life out of you like a tapeworm in the brain). ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523/28 "2018-11-08T06:31:03Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > Does your department/school/University have any sort of career counseling or placement services? If so, go see them. Have you talked with any of your IT professors? They often have connections and can help you. Good answer, also check with your Alumni assosation ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523/29 "2018-11-11T06:36:09Z")
> [@LessTalk](#): > > I will be graduating in May 2019 with a degree from LSU in Information Technology. I’ve been trying to apply to jobs to get some real technical experience but I have had no luck. > … > I am currently studying for the A+ certification and should take the exam by December/January, which I mention in all the interviews I’ve been too, but I guess it doesn’t make a difference. When I was investigating what school to take I went to prospective employers with the curriculum and asked them if they would hire someone with this training. Luckily, I was asked to come back to see the majority of them on completion, so I went in with some understanding of the potential job market when I got out. Was your goal after 4 years of university to get a help desk role? Because I’d be hiring A+ certified people for that role, not a university grad. Frankly, I wouldn’t hire a university grad for anything other than a programmer or BA. Most I wouldn’t let touch a computer unless under strict supervision. Industry certs or degrees/diplomas from technical colleges are more relevant, imho. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senior-who-will-have-a-degree-in-it-currently-trying-to-get-experience-feel-like-giving-up/823523.md?page=1)