# SenorBeef And The Streisand Effect **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2024, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866 "2024-12-19T13:49:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/81 "2024-12-20T00:17:38Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > **Hamlet** again, no comment on who won the debate. You’ve definitely lost this pitting. As to the debate, it’s just the typical rehash of “realpolitick v ideology” that has been going on in the Democrat party for decades, so there is no real “winning”. You certainly do come across as a sanctimonious strawman creator though. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/82 "2024-12-20T00:19:10Z")
I’ve lost this Pitting? How do you figure? No, seriously. I ain’t seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/83 "2024-12-20T00:25:17Z")
Okay, so I was wrong about **Miller** not insulting you. There is still this- > [@SenorBeef](#): > > You accuse me of being sexist and racist and every other ist you can think of, just like them, because it allows you to dismiss me and ignore the uncomfortable truth that your approach may have backfired and actually harmed rather than helped your cause. > [@DocCathode](#): > > I say for the third time- I called your _position_ racist and misogynist. I never called you as a poster those things. I also never called you “-every other ist you can think of” > I have twice asked you to quote where I accuse you of being sexist and racist and every other ist you can think of. I ask again. You provided a quote to prove **Miller** insutled you. You have yet to provide a quote proving that I did. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/84 "2024-12-20T00:46:45Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’ve lost this Pitting? How do you figure? No, seriously. I ain’t seeing it. That’s kinda the point. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/85 "2024-12-20T00:49:18Z")
That is either a wicked burn or complete cop out. Possibly it is both. ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/86 "2024-12-20T00:59:18Z")
The parasocial attachment to shitty, loser candidate Kamala Harris, who managed to answer the question “how awful of a politician do you have to be to lose an election to a senile Donald Trump with a one billion dollar advertising fund” in resounding fashion, is truly bizarre. Yes, she was an awful candidate. Yes, she has no consistent position on any issue. Yes, she can’t form a complete sentence. Yes, she’s obviously on fucking Xanax and if you don’t see that you’re either willfully blind or one of the army of 60-something American suburbanites who are also on pills 24/7 and think no one else can tell (we can!) The idea of running this person AGAIN after this fiasco is absolutely absurd. No one whose goal is “to have a Democrat win the presidency” could possibly entertain this for one second. People have gotten so caught up in “look how virtuous I am for supporting The First Black Woman President” and “Kamala Harris is my personal friend and I’m here to defend her honor” that they are advocating positions directly contrary to “have a Democrat win the presidency.” It’s delusional, it’s at war with reality, it’s destructive to the future of this county - but it’s what enough people with mod powers believe, so anyone who disputes it will be interpreted as “insulting” someone in a disallowed fashion! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/87 "2024-12-20T01:03:00Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Imagine two parallel realities: > > Reality 1: Kamala Harris is nominated as the Democratic candidate in 2028. > > Reality 2: A generic straight, white, Christian man who I’m gonna call Bill Jones is nominated as the Democratic candidate in 2028. Try it again, only this time actually put in a real name in your “Reality 2”, just like you did with your “Reality 1”. But neither of you can do that without having to say what you really think about that second possibility, can you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/88 "2024-12-20T01:04:51Z")
> [@songsoflovetrouble](#): > > The parasocial attachment to shitty, loser candidate Kamala Harris, who managed to answer the question “how awful of a politician do you have to be to lose an election to a senile Donald Trump with a one billion dollar advertising fund” in resounding fashion, is truly bizarre. > > Yes, she was an awful candidate. Yes, she has no consistent position on any issue. Yes, she can’t form a complete sentence. Yes, she’s obviously on fucking Xanax and if you don’t see that you’re either willfully blind or one of the army of 60-something American suburbanites who are also on pills 24/7 and think no one else can tell (we can!) All your right wing bullshit about Harris aside, can you name a Democrat that would have won over Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/89 "2024-12-20T01:06:53Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Because we’re not going to get rid of sexism and white privilege in four years. If we’re never going to nominate anyone other than white men…what exactly do you think the timetable _is_ for getting rid of racism and sexism? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/90 "2024-12-20T01:08:35Z")
Thank you for saying that. We’re good. ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/91 "2024-12-20T01:11:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > can you name a Democrat that would have won over Trump? Josh Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer, Katie Hobbs, or John Fetterman would probably have won. Josh Stein absolutely would have won - the fact that he won the NC governor’s race in a 14-point blowout among the same electorate who picked Trump for president in that state says it all. He should be the pre-emptive nominee in 2028 based on that, if the qualifications for the nominee are “someone with normal Democratic Party beliefs who has shown he can win a competitive election with an electorate that looks like America.” Unfortunately, the Democratic nomination system is so fucked up that those criteria are barely even considered. The Democrats were hemmed in to Harris because by the time Biden was convinced to drop out, she was the only person legally able to use his campaign funding. They need to fix the systematic problems that led to Biden clinging on past the point where he was a viable candidate. They don’t need to make excuses for the shitty candidate they were boxed into, especially in the context of “should we nominate a proven loser with no upside and lose again in 2028”? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/92 "2024-12-20T01:18:44Z")
This reminds me of when Al Gore and then John Kerry lost, and all the Democrats were like “Let’s never nominate a straight white man again!”. Oh, wait, that didn’t happen. Because in this country, when a white man fails it just means that he wasn’t good enough, but when a black woman fails it proves that no black woman could ever possibly be good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/93 "2024-12-20T01:26:48Z")
All time, the Democrats are 19-26 in Presidential elections when running white candidates, and 2-1 with black candidates. By the “logic” that seems to be popular on this board, that would seem to prove that we should always run only _black_ candidates in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/94 "2024-12-20T01:52:24Z")
Heck, if we count by popular vote winners, we’re .500 with women candidates and only .456 with men, so obviously black women are the only people we should be considering going forward! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/95 "2024-12-20T03:22:52Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > we’re never going to nominate anyone other than white men…what exactly do you think the timetable _is_ for getting rid of racism and sexism? Never. America has collapsed it’s over. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/96 "2024-12-20T03:35:35Z")
> [@songsoflovetrouble](#): > > Josh Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer, Katie Hobbs, or John Fetterman would probably have won. If one of them had been nominated instead you would have slandered them the same way…and when asked you probably would have named Harris as one of the better choices. Your problem is you played your hand for all to see, jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/97 "2024-12-20T03:45:37Z")
**songs** does seem to be going out of his way to be an asshole in this thread, but his point is completely valid. The fact that many downballot Democrats significantly outperformed Harris in swing States is highly relevant to the question of whether she should be considered as a future nominee (which is what we were talking about two threads ago). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/98 "2024-12-20T03:52:29Z")
Do you think they would have done better on that short a notice, or that he (and other right-wingers) wouldn’t have spread vicious shit about them the way they did with her? They were going to utterly destroy whoever was nominated, ethics be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/99 "2024-12-20T04:10:04Z")
Well, I posted something highly relevant to the “short notice” argument in the original thread: two of Harris’ top four staffers had previously been with the Biden campaign. Their futile attempts to prop the old guy up _directly created_ that situation, so that’s no excuse. You keep avoiding the central point: Many Democrats did better than Harris. Do you think this is some unimportant piece of trivia that only right-wing concern trolls would want to talk about? ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866/100 "2024-12-20T04:15:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If one of them had been nominated instead you would have slandered them the same way…and when asked you probably would have named Harris as one of the better choices. Your problem is you played your hand for all to see, jackass. Yup, everyone’s part of the conspiracy. Kamala cannot fail, she can only be failed. Anyone who notices that Kamala capped out at 5% polling support _among registered Democrats_ in the 2020 primaries and had to drop out before getting a single primary vote is part of the conspiracy. Anyone who asks why that is and why someone who has no support outside of California whatseover was put on the ticket as Biden’s successor is part of the conspiracy. They’re all secret right-wingers who are sabotaging the Democrats’ grand genius plan to run their worst candidate in 40 years a second time. I’m the one who blew a billion dollar campaign fund losing an election by a wide margin to a 78-year-old mentally ill Nazi-sympathizing rapist who has already proven himself the worst president since (at least) the Civil War. It wasn’t Kamala or her advisors who missed that layup, it was me and all the other people who voted for her as the lesser evil of two drug-addicted babbling morons. It was our fault. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Well, I posted something highly relevant to the “short notice” argument in the original thread: two of Harris’ top four staffers had previously been with the Biden campaign. Their futile attempts to prop the old guy up _directly created_ that situation, so that’s no excuse. Biden won in 2020 largely by disavowing The Groups, The Blue-Haired College Students, and the DSA and being the normal adult that people want, then immediately surrounded himself with all of Warren’s and Sanders’s castoffs as part of the price of unity. I’m sure his own stubborness played a part in how the refusal to step aside drama played out, but the Biden/Harris admin would not have been in such a hole election-wise if he had stuck to his guns against the idiot wing of the party. > [@](#): > > You keep avoiding the central point: Many Democrats did better than Harris. Do you think this is some unimportant piece of trivia that only right-wing concern trolls would want to talk about? You can keep asking the Kamala Superfriends all day long why 300 other Democrats won if it’s impossible for Democrats to win or what she did with the billion dollars if it’s impossible to get her message out, and they won’t answer because there is no answer, they’ll just keep shrieking louder about The Conspiracy and how unfair it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senorbeef-and-the-streisand-effect/1011866.md?page=6)