# Sentencing for "2drunk2care" driver **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 7, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497 "2015-05-07T17:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/61 "2015-05-11T03:22:31Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Fifteen. Fifteen sounds like a good arbitrary number. Of people to be killed? Why exactly is one person’s life and liberty so much more valuable than the lives of, 14 people? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/62 "2015-05-11T04:20:58Z")
I don’t believe a sentence should be “sending a message.” This woman’s life is not a means to some other end, such as “sending a message.” But a sentence should be an act of justice. And as justice, 24 years is entirely justifiable for taking the lives of two innocent people . . . especially following her message that she was “2drunk2care.” It’s now like she didn’t know she was drunk; she just didn’t care. The judge’s sentence is appropriate. And I don’t blame the victims’ families for not forgiving her. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/63 "2015-05-11T12:26:13Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I don’t believe a sentence should be “sending a message.” This woman’s life is not a means to some other end, such as “sending a message.” But a sentence should be an act of justice. And as justice, 24 years is entirely justifiable for taking the lives of two innocent people . . . especially following her message that she was “2drunk2care.” It’s now like she didn’t know she was drunk; she just didn’t care. The judge’s sentence is appropriate. > > And I don’t blame the victims’ families for not forgiving her. Why not? Why shouldn’t we make examples out of the worst cases, make sure they get a deterrent sentence and a lot of publicity to scare the ever loving shit out of people - there’s a wonderful Chinese proverb “Kill the chicken to scare the monkey,” I absolutely don’t mind that a stupid chicken gets a harsh punishment\* if it scares a whole troop of monkeys. - I don’t accept that her punishment was overly harsh, 12 years for depraved indifference to human life seems fairly appropriate to me. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/64 "2015-05-11T17:07:31Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Should the penalty for driving drunk depend on whether somebody gets killed? > > Once somebody chooses to drink and then chooses (while intoxicated) to drive, how does also killing somebody without intending to hurt them change one’s guilt? Really? Do you mean that??? Of course killing makes it worse. One who drives drunk is guilty of DUI, and there are penalties for that. One who drives drunk and gets in an accident is guilty of DUI plus any traffic offences committed. There are separate penaties for each. One who drives drunk, gets in an accident and kills someone is guilty of DUI, any traffic offenses AND the death of those killed. Again, there are penalties for each of those offenses. > [@Napier](#): > > How would we feel about a 1 or 5 or 24 year sentence for first offense drunk driving? As stated above, penalties for DUI are separate and different from murder/manslaughter. This red herring has no bearing on this discussion. > [@Napier](#): > > How do we feel about bars having parking lots? And how do we feel about strawmen? I’m not arguing for or against the sentence, but understand that legally she was (or could have been) charged with and found guilty of DUI, any number of traffic offenses and 2 counts of murder/manslaughter. On their own any of the above, if egregious enough, could result in jail time (according to Florida statues). ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/65 "2015-05-11T18:44:01Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Should the penalty for driving drunk depend on whether somebody gets killed? Should the penalty for closing your eyes and discharging a firearm in a random direction depend on whether somebody gets killed? I suspect most people would answer yes, and I don’t see why driving drunk should be regarded any differently. Along similar lines, the penalties for murder and _attempted_ murder are different, despite the fact that the intent was the same. Bottom line, outcome and intent both matter. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/66 "2015-05-11T19:13:41Z")
I wonder what her sentence would have been if it were not the “2drunk2care” message. That message incites anger. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/67 "2015-05-11T19:17:17Z")
I’d be fine if there were a sliding scale based on level of intoxication. If you are .0001 over the limit it should not be punished the same as if you are .1 over the limit. That being said, in this case life without parole would be fine with me. Same penalty if you injure someone or not. If the consequences of DUI were life without parole, my guess is that DUI would decrease dramatically. We need more prisons. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/68 "2015-05-11T19:38:24Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’d be fine if there were a sliding scale based on level of intoxication. If you are .0001 over the limit it should not be punished the same as if you are .1 over the limit. So what is the point of the limit when there is a fudge factor for the limit? If you want a sliding scale, here’s mine: **Zero tolerance** , combined with a defined medical definition for BAC of 0.08 as the legal definition for being DUI. Any BAC between 0.00 and 0.79 is subject to the actual circumstances at hand because let’s face it, it’s possible to be more than 0.00 due to ordinary body metabolism. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/69 "2015-05-11T19:52:34Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What are really the chances that she won’t get out early, due to prison overcrowding? Because should releases for that reason come around, I’m gonna believe she’ll be at the top of that list. Having not used a gun, unlikely to reoffend, etc. Unlikely to reoffend? If you give her two years, or even five where she actually serves three, I bet she is doing it again. license or no license. How many times do you suppose she did it before without killing anyone? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/70 "2015-05-11T20:20:28Z")
My point was, on paper she will appear ‘unlikely to reoffend’, meaning NOT a career criminal with a long history. She’ll be an easy pick compared to most other inmates, in my opinion, for right or for wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/71 "2015-05-11T20:59:07Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > So what is the point of the limit when there is a fudge factor for the limit? It’s not a fudge factor - it’s a recognition that there are differences between different levels of intoxication. It’s arbitrary - so is any limit. Why .08 and not .07 or .09? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/72 "2015-05-11T22:18:41Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s not a fudge factor - it’s a recognition that there are differences between different levels of intoxication. It’s arbitrary - so is any limit. Why .08 and not .07 or .09? All states in the USA have a BAC of 0.08 for DUI. As to why it was selected and not 0.07 or 0.09 may be just a political line in the sand. Other countries and [lower and higher limits](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content) to legally identify DUI. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/73 "2015-05-11T23:26:34Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Dude - I think you have a bit of a vested interest in commenting on such things What? I admit that I have consumed alcohol and then gotten behind the wheel and driven. Just like millions of other people all around the country every single day and night that frequent bars and clubs. What is my “vested interest” in having the opinion that draconian laws for accidental deaths in such cases are not right? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/74 "2015-05-12T02:00:34Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > So what is the point of the limit when there is a fudge factor for the limit? > > If you want a sliding scale, here’s mine: **Zero tolerance** , combined with a defined medical definition for BAC of 0.08 as the legal definition for being DUI. Any BAC between 0.00 and 0.79 is subject to the actual circumstances at hand because let’s face it, it’s possible to be more than 0.00 due to ordinary body metabolism. That’s what we have here - 0.08 is automatically “DUI / DIC” but you can also be charged and convicted with less than this if, in the opinion of the officer, “you are not in sufficient control” As a side note - I understand that New Zealand recently reduced their level from 0.08 and in Australia it is significantly less than this? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/75 "2015-05-12T02:02:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I wonder what her sentence would have been if it were not the “2drunk2care” message. That message incites anger. I think the message says a lot about her state of mind - Instead of being somebody stupid who didn’t realise how drunk she was it turns her into somebody that knew what she was doing was foolish, dangerous and stupid, but did it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/76 "2015-05-12T02:24:50Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > As a side note - I understand that New Zealand recently reduced their level from 0.08 and in Australia it is significantly less than this? I grew up and got my license in New South Wales, Australia’s most populous state. The blood alcohol limit in NSW was always (and still is) 0.05. I believe that most (probably all) other Aussie states have a similar limit. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/77 "2015-05-12T02:51:34Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > What? I admit that I have consumed alcohol and then gotten behind the wheel and driven. Just like millions of other people all around the country every single day and night that frequent bars and clubs. What is my “vested interest” in having the opinion that draconian laws for accidental deaths in such cases are not right? Don’t play coy, you know exactly what he is referring to. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/78 "2015-05-18T19:57:00Z")
I know that each incident like this needs to be considered on its own merits, but my willingness to give the drivers in these cases the benefit of the doubt, and to give them relatively lenient sentences, plummets considerably when i see two almost-identical cases like this on our local freeways in a matter of a couple of weeks. On Saturday, May 2, a drunk driver drove the wrong way down a local freeway and slammed head-on into oncoming traffic. The drunk driver survived, but two people in the other car were killed. [Link](http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Scripps-Parkway-I15-Deadly-Wrong-Way-Crash-302304911.html) Just two nights ago, on May 16, a drunk driver drove the wrong way down a local freeway and slammed head-on into oncoming traffic. The drunk driver survived, but two people in the other car were killed. [Link](http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/SR163-Wrong-Way-Deadly-Crash-I8-Overpass-Truck-Prius-303999651.html) Fuck both of those assholes. I hope they spend a long time in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/79 "2015-05-19T18:56:01Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Don’t play coy, you know exactly what he is referring to. Well if he is referring to the car accident that led to the surgery that ultimately paralyzed me, I fail to see how this leads me to have a vested interest in finding a 24 year sentence for a death resulting from drunk driving too stiff for the offense. Yes, I have been involved in an impaired-driving accident (0.06 bac at 20 years of age, zero tolerance alcohol laws for those under 21). However, I have never hurt another person. So I fail to see how I have a vested interest in this conversation. I’m not playing coy whatsoever. Please elaborate the opinion of how I have a vested interest. Please. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497/80 "2015-05-19T19:27:51Z")
Ambivalid, you must know by now that the Normal People allow no variance from what they assume you and all others like you must think about whatever issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-for-2drunk2care-driver/719497.md?page=5)