# Sentencing Guidelines v. Mandatory Minimum Sentences. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2018, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787 "2018-09-05T07:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/1 "2018-09-05T07:48:02Z")
Something I have wondered for some time now. What exactly is the difference, in the United States, between mandatory minimum sentences and sentencing guidelines? Because one, sentencing guidelines is unconstitutional. And the other, mandatory minimum sentences, apparently isn’t. I am talking about criminal law, of course. And I have no idea how the matter is treated in other countries, which is why I limit my question to the USA. I mean, what is to stop you from calling one the other, the other, one? And why is on unconstitutional, but not the other? Thank you in advance to all who reply:). :):)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/2 "2018-09-05T08:11:24Z")
IANAL, but minimum just means minimum but “guidelines” could deal with a maximum just as much as a minimum? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/3 "2018-09-05T10:52:52Z")
The UK has mandatory minimum sentences for some offences - eg a minimum of 7 years’ for a person over 18 convicted of trafficking, supplying or producing Class A drugs for the third or subsequent time. This means what it says - get convicted and do 7 years minimum. Guidelines are just that: Advice to magistrates on the sentences to be handed out for a whole range of offences. They came about because magistrates are mostly part-time volunteers and they needed some guidance on sentencing. They have the freedom to vary sentences but they should use the guide as a base. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/4 "2018-09-05T14:49:52Z")
Sentencing guidelines are not automatically unconstitutional, they can be unconstitutional if they call for the sentencing judge to make determinations of fact outside of what the jury found or the defendant admitted to. Mandatory minimums do not call for the sentencing judge to make separate determinations of fact but to sentence based only on the crimes the defendant was found guilty of. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/5 "2018-09-05T16:20:24Z")
It’s not true that sentencing guidelines are unconstitutional. In fact they are very common. The court cases you might be thinking about were when the requirements were mandatory instead of just guidelines. See for example United States vs Booker: > [@](#): > > In its majority decision, the Court struck down the provision of the federal sentencing statute that required federal district judges to impose a sentence within the Federal Guidelines range, along with the provision that deprived federal appeals courts of the power to review sentences imposed outside the range. The Court instructed federal district judges to impose a sentence with reference to a wider range of sentencing factors set forth in the federal sentencing statute, and it directed federal appeals courts to review criminal sentences for “reasonableness,” which the Court left undefined. > **[United States v. Booker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Booker)** > > United States v. Booker, 543 U.S. 220 (2005), is a United States Supreme Court decision on criminal sentencing. The Court ruled that the Sixth Amendment right to jury trial requires that other than a prior conviction, only facts admitted by a defendant or proved beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury may be used to calculate a sentence exceeding the prescribed statutory maximum sentence, whether the defendant has pleaded guilty or been convicted at trial. The maximum sentence that a judge may impo... ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/6 "2018-09-05T16:23:28Z")
A mandatory minimum is a minimum sentence that a judge must issue upon conviction as a matter of law. A sentencing guideline is a set of procedures for calculating a sentence within a given statutory range. In the federal system, these are advisory only. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/7 "2018-09-05T16:28:37Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Something I have wondered for some time now. > > What exactly is the difference, in the United States, between mandatory minimum sentences and sentencing guidelines? A mandatory minimum is just what it sounds like. Grow 100 marijuana plants, you will serve at least 5 years (add another 5 if you possess a gun). First degree murder, serve at least 20 years. The sentencing guidelines are meant to figure out where in the permissible range a judge should sentence you. To use the marijuana example, five years might be the minimum, but the maximum might be 20 years. So, who should get five years, who should get 7, who should get 12 and who should get 20? The guidelines are designed to help the judge exercise his or her discretion. So, what is your prior criminal history? How much did you “take responsiblity” for your offense. Were you an organizer or a grunt? Points get added and subtracted, and then you look on a grid and see where you land. Then, the judge can depart from the guidelines, but at least there is some attempt to standardize the process and guide the use of judicial discretion. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/8 "2018-09-05T17:31:09Z")
I think the legal distinction was answered above quite well. There’s another important distinction though. The intent behind mandatory minimums is often very nasty, and the societal effects are quite counter productive. Mandatory minimums are _very often_ used to target segments of the population, especially where drug use is involved. A lot of this is inherited from the “bad old days” of the drug war ([Top Nixon Aide Admits The Drug War Is To Target Blacks - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbtYCq9kymA)) but it also crops up in other criminal fields as well. It’s often counter productive because it equates a minor offense to a major one - that is, if there is a mandatory minimum for, say, jaywalking, that has is about the same as the penalty for murder, then it makes logical sense to murder someone to escape a jaywalking charge. Yeah. I’m sure someone better versed in the specifics can give a more concrete example, but this sort of break down happens all the time. It also makes mitigating circumstances (a woman stealing bread for her starving baby is the prototypical example) irrelevant, as it removes a judge’s flexibility, officer’s ability to negotiate plea bargains, and even effects a jury’s willingness to convict. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/9 "2018-09-05T19:52:49Z")
I’ve served on a state Sentencing Guidelines Commission. No one ever told us that such Guidelines were unconstitutional. As far as I know, they are used every day in our Minnesota Courts. (We did make efforts to ensure that the ‘factors’ used in the Guidelines were objective, factual items, not something dependent on anyone’s judgement. Like: How many previous convictions? Was a weapon used in the crime? etc.) The difference has been covered; _mandatory_ vs.\* guideline\*, and that the Guidelines also have maximums. In Minnesota, the Guidelines are somewhat strengthened by a few things: - anytime a Judge departs (upward or downward) from the Guidelines, the Judge must write a statement justifying the departure. The extra paperwork alone discourages this. - such departures from the Guidelines can be appealed for review by a higher court (separate from the conviction itself). - the MN Board on Judicial Standards can discipline Judges for excessive or unreasonable departures from the Guidelines. (I don’t know that they have ever actually done so. Most of their actions are private, and not publicly announced.) - finally, the Judges statement explaining Guideline departures is public record. As all MN Judges are elected, an opponent running against a judge in the re-election campaign can attack them for their Guideline departures. (I’ve heard of at least a couple instances of this.) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/10 "2018-09-06T00:14:10Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > I’ve served on a state Sentencing Guidelines Commission. > > No one ever told us that such Guidelines were unconstitutional. As far as I know, they are used every day in our Minnesota Courts. > (We did make efforts to ensure that the ‘factors’ used in the Guidelines were objective, factual items, not something dependent on anyone’s judgement. Like: How many previous convictions? Was a weapon used in the crime? etc.) Here’s an [article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3336-2005Jan12.html) about the Booker decision and the Federal Sentencing Guidelines. > [@](#): > > The divided outcome emerged from unusual twin majority opinions in United States v. Booker, No. 04-104, and United States v. Fanfan, No. 04-105. One group of five justices said the current administration of the guidelines violates defendants’ right to a jury trial because judges impose sentences under them based on facts that a jury did not find beyond a reasonable doubt. > > Another group of five justices explained why the guidelines must nevertheless continue to shape sentencing decisions even if judges are no longer legally bound to follow them. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentencing-guidelines-v-mandatory-minimum-sentences/820787/11 "2018-09-06T06:43:33Z")
Point of correction about the UK: sentencing guidelines are advice from judges to other judges, not just local magistrates trying minor offences (at least in England and Wales - Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own legal and judicial systems, though they probably don’t differ too much).