# SentientMeat begs America: Fuck Neoconservatism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304 "2004-11-01T12:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/1 "2004-11-01T12:29:34Z")
As a corrolary of [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=283398) in which I could not be as passionate as I wish, and mindful of being a foreigner attempting to influence a US election, I nevertheless implore you, America: **Please** reject Neoconservatism on November 2nd. [ul][li]These psychopaths care nothing for the global suffering they cause, so long as it furthers their utterly naive ideological goals. [_]They care nothing for economic prudence, preferring to mortgage the entire estate on a disastrously ill-conceived imbroglio which the rest of the family will take years, maybe decades, to pay off. [_]They care nothing for honesty, holding that an ideological myth is often necessary to counter inconvenient reality. [_]They care nothing for personal freedom, since it diminishes governmental power. [_]They care nothing for morality, confusing the _act_ with the _actor_ such that one’s own evil acts and alliances with monsters can be justified “_because **we** cannot be wrong_”.[_]They care nothing for co-operation, nor diplomacy, nor even basic dialogue, preferring to stomp around in Soviet-style boots bellowing treason! at any who disagree.[_]They care nothing for the lives of their soldiers and citizens abroad, so long as their deaths can be propagandised as being solely the responsibility of the enemy they depend upon.They have not even the social grace to be _embarrassed_ when they lose a truth-telling contest with a lying, cheating tyrant like Saddam Hussein, instead constructing myth upon myth to hypnotise the electorate whom they view with such contempt. If these pricks had been in government back then, instead of at the miseducational teat of 2400-year-out-of-date Straussian philosophy, they would surely have claimed that _Nixon_ did no wrong.[/ul][/li]I do not expect this plea to do any good (instead I await a neoconservative’s piss-weak turnaround of each of the above points so that they castigate that ineffectual but, crucially, _non-psychopathic_ wanker John Kerry) and I would understand if you were to yawn and dismiss this as familiar partisan hysteria you’ve had a gutful of over the last months and years. Indeed, perhaps the US **needs** four more years of neoconservatism to finally realise its true nature and consequences, and thus set in stone its failure as a political philosophy in a historical lesson for future generations. But the thought of what they could do in the next four years, especially if they came to realise that their philosophy was doomed, chills me to the very bone. I love and admire America, but I **beg** you, from _Britain_, your best political friend in the world, **please reject Neoconservatism**. ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/2 "2004-11-01T12:39:05Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > from _Britain_, your best political friend in the world, **please reject Neoconservatism**. And when exactly did I ask you to speak for me? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/3 "2004-11-01T12:50:37Z")
I am _from_ Britain. I do not speak _for_ Britain. We could begin from red book one but, you see, I can’t be arsed. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/4 "2004-11-01T12:55:41Z")
Throwing this Paddy’s weight behind the OP 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/5 "2004-11-01T13:00:46Z")
I promise that at least half of us are trying. Whether that will be enough, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/6 "2004-11-01T13:01:42Z")
Well, since you asked so nicely… On a related note, do y’all foreigners realize just how much of a double-standard we got over here? I mean, the US as a whole thinks nothing of meddling in other country’s elections, whether it’s promising to continue funding domestic terrorism if the Sandanistas win, or using CIA tricks to promote one candidate over another. But let some non-American even voice a hint of preference for one candidate or another, and you’ll think you’d just assassinated Willie Nelson from the response you’ll get. We take it **real** personal, for some reason. Possibly the worst election flub I’ve heard about this cycle was when the Guardian sponsored a letter-writing campaign of Brits trying to get Bush kicked out of office. Talk about your political tin ears. But yeah–I’ll reject neoconservatism. Even though some of my best friends are Jewish ;). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/7 "2004-11-01T13:08:38Z")
Why should we seek to influence US voters? Like the Guardian fiasco, it’s condescending, and could so easily backfire. And yet the tempation is there. Personally, I do wish I could influence US voters to get rid of the Neocons behind the man. I am worried that the people running the admin are driving an irreparable wedge in between the right and left of the US. I’ve never seen so much campaign animosity in a democratic country before. They’re also driving a wedge between the US and the rest of the world that can only get wider if they’re returned to power. Sure, the US is big enough and powerful enough to get its own way with few allies, but it’s a lot easier and less bloody when you do have friends. Maybe it’s selfish, but I favour a closer and more friendly relationship with the US, a country I love, not an antagonistic one. For all the good it will do, I’m **jjimm** and I approve this message. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/8 "2004-11-01T13:21:34Z")
The trouble with this whole thing is that not all Bush supporters are ‘neocons’–you’ve been fed that line by your press, it seems, and it’s totally overreaching (and all too often I detect a whiff of anti-Semitism, too). A re-election of Bush will not mean that all the people who voted for him agree with the overstated points in the OP. For a lot of people he’s just the lesser of two evils–I’ve met plenty of people for whom Kerry represents the failed policies of the 60s. Pardon us if not all of us immediately accept the wisdom of the Old World, whose constant convulsions sent most of us over here in the first place and took the lives of some of our relatives within living memory. Don’t worry so much. We’ll always be there for our friends in Europe. But we have to go our own way. I hope we choose Kerry, but if we don’t, just accept the decision like us Democrats will over here. At least, I plan too after a month or so of :mad: ☹ :mad: ☹ :mad: And if I who have to live here can do it, so can you. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/9 "2004-11-01T13:27:19Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > The trouble with this whole thing is that not all Bush supporters are ‘neocons’ Sure, but Bush is, and so’s his cabinet. > [@Mehitabel](#): > > all too often I detect a whiff of anti-Semitism, too No. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/10 "2004-11-01T13:31:40Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Sure, but Bush is, and so’s his cabinet. Actually, I honestly don’t think he is. But his most influential advisors are… ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/11 "2004-11-01T13:31:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure, but Bush is, and so’s his cabinet. Actually, I do not think that Bush can accurately be characterised as neoconservative himself (not that Bush is, well, _anything_ really). But the only way to **reject** it is by voting for someone else. And that “anti-semitic” nonsense is just another myth which they envelop themselves with to avoid serious criticism of their ideology. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/12 "2004-11-01T13:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The trouble with this whole thing is that not all Bush supporters are ‘neocons’–you’ve been fed that line by your press That’s horse shit as well. Where you get this idea from your press 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/13 "2004-11-01T14:33:48Z")
Sentient Meat, I shall do my part. I hope that you will be pleasantly surprised with your American cousins come Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/14 "2004-11-01T14:55:01Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Sure, but Bush is, and so’s his cabinet. Bush’s cabinet isn’t made up of neocons either. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/15 "2004-11-01T15:01:42Z")
Other than that **jjimm** was spot on 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/16 "2004-11-01T15:09:48Z")
So does this mean that next year you guys won’t mind if we Yanks post pro-Boris threads? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/17 "2004-11-01T15:18:52Z")
Please do\* Boris is smart, MAD, eccentric and most importantly enough funny. You need a Boris over there IMO 😉 - join us Irish as sticking our noses in the UK’s bussiness is a national pastime for us 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/18 "2004-11-01T15:26:54Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Bush’s cabinet isn’t made up of neocons either. I apologise for exaggerating. Not the entire cabinet. Just all over the administration. On the [Statement of Principles](http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm) of the PNAC, we only find the [Vice President](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney), the [Secretary of Defense](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld), the [Deputy Secretary of Defense](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz), the [Special Assistant to the President](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams). Wikipedia lists these and another 12 members in the administration. And of course, Jeb. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/19 "2004-11-01T15:28:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **gobear** :So does this mean that next year you guys won’t mind if we Yanks post pro-Boris threads? I absolutely will not mind (and I’m even from Liverpool!). As I said in my [GD OP](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=283398): > [@](#): > > Dear American friends of the Straight Dope, > > I would have posted this next week, but my conscience forbade me to wait. Consider this an infinitessimal attempt to change the course of history, on behalf of a non-American who loves Americans but simply cannot believe what their country has become. Rest assured that should any of you compose a treatise similar to this before a British or EU election, I would consider it wholly appropriate and explore it with you in earnest. > > Love, > > **SentientMeat** ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/20 "2004-11-01T15:36:14Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > So does this mean that next year you guys won’t mind if we Yanks post pro-Boris threads? Please do! I’d be glad you have an opinion on the result one way or the other. I don’t agree with Boris’s politics, though I think he’s hilarious, but I’d love to hear what people from outside the country think about the situation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304.md?page=2)