# SentientMeat begs America: Fuck Neoconservatism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304 "2004-11-01T12:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/41 "2004-11-01T20:52:08Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > Trying to win an argument by getting right in your opponent’s face and spewing bile and venom is a little crude, folks. Try not to regard the vituperation you’ve experienced here as an assault on the redoubt of Western Civilization, but as collateral damage in the fight against ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/42 "2004-11-01T21:35:17Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > The BBQ Pit is the _place_ for bile and venom, **Ringworm**. Not that I’m agreeing with homeboy, but in the interest of full openness: Just because something is allowed doesn’t mean it’s required. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/43 "2004-11-01T21:41:50Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Just because something is allowed doesn’t mean it’s required. Just because something isn’t required doesn’t mean it’s unnecessary or unwelcome. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/44 "2004-11-01T23:09:26Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > What is so \*bad \* about promoting freedom and democracy around the world? I am amazed by the number of self-styled liberal Dopers who seem content to let millions of people around the world live in misery and poverty, crushed under brutal repression. From the standpoint of classic liberalism, this does not seem to be very humanitarian. Blah fucking blah. I probably would’ve supported the administration had they stood up in front of the UN and said: “Y’know, this guy’s an asshole, and we’re going to take him out. Once we’ve solved that problem, we’re going to put the smackdown on Saudi Arabia – that’s where the money and people came from in the attack, after all. Those two issues will take a little while, but I’m pretty sure you guys can help us pony up a few thousand troops to take care of that dickhead in Zimbabwe. And, hey! South East Asia! Y’all wanna help us take care of the massive human rights abuses occuring in China and North Korea? That’d be great.” But no. The administration stood up in front of the UN and trotted out bogus data claiming that we were under “imminent threat” of attack. And while I’m on this subject, since fucking when have Republicans been all over that feel-good, “Think of the poor, down-trodden people!” bullshit? Aren’t they the same clowns who, a decade ago, were jumping up and down screaming their fool heads off over Somalia and the former Yugoslavia because the US is not supposed to be the world’s policeman? I really don’t mind conservatives co-opting liberal values - hell, I’d be happy if more of them did! - but the least they could do is add some footnotes to their party line. Plagarism is unethical[.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4663526&postcount=140) ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/45 "2004-11-01T23:10:11Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > What is so \*bad \* about promoting freedom and democracy around the world? I am amazed by the number of self-styled liberal Dopers who seem content to let millions of people around the world live in misery and poverty, crushed under brutal repression. From the standpoint of classic liberalism, this does not seem to be very humanitarian. The thing is, democracy and liberalism aren’t the same thing (they’re related, but still distinct from each other). A democratic electoral system installed into a society that doesn’t have a tradition of legal or constitutional guarantees for individual liberties can easily turn into mob rule. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding of the neocon worldview is that spreading democracy is in itself a good thing, and doing so as quickly as possible is the desired goal, with no thought given to whether a society has the proper institutions to guard against a “tyranny of the majority” – and this emphasis of democracy over liberty, I think, leads towards a more destabilized and possibly more brutal world. A democratic polity does not, by itself, lift a country’s citizens out of misery or repression. I trust you’ll find [this essay](http://www.fareedzakaria.com/articles/other/democracy.html), written by a conservative with impeccable intellectual credentials, a good read. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/46 "2004-11-01T23:16:07Z")
> [@chique](#): > > I probably would’ve supported the administration had they stood up in front of the UN and said: "Y’know, this guy’s an asshole, and we’re going to take him out. Once we’ve solved that problem, we’re going to put the smackdown on Saudi Arabia – that’s where the money and people came from in the attack, after all. Those two issues will take a little while, but I’m pretty sure you guys can help us pony up a few thousand troops to take care of that dickhead in Zimbabwe. Me too. > [@](#): > > And, hey! South East Asia! Y’all wanna help us take care of the massive human rights abuses occuring in China and North Korea? That’d be great." I’d agree as well, if North Korea (and the vast majority of China) were actually in South East Asia. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/47 "2004-11-02T11:19:09Z")
> [@](#): > > **CA:** I have no idea what **Sentient Meat’s** friend Phil and Napoleon Bonaparte have to do with anything. You told me not to confuse neoconservatives with realists. If any neoconservative claimed to be even slightly _realistic_, I would view this with as much skepticism as if my deranged friend claimed to be a 19th century French dictator. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/48 "2004-11-02T12:09:16Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > I am now a Charter Member. This is the first board of any kind I have joined on the Web. Welcome to the SDMB, btw. [sub]I figured he could use a little love in here[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/49 "2004-11-02T12:44:13Z")
Dear American voters. Please get rid of that pisspoor, dimrod, gung-ho excuse of an incumbent. I shall buy you all pie if Kerry wins. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/50 "2004-11-02T13:22:33Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Dear American voters. > > Please get rid of that pisspoor, dimrod, gung-ho excuse of an incumbent. > > I shall buy you all pie if Kerry wins. Let the record show that I voted Kerry at 6:01 am this morning. Polls open at 6:00 am in NY. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/51 "2004-11-02T13:50:56Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Dear American voters. > > Please get rid of that pisspoor, dimrod, gung-ho excuse of an incumbent. > > I shall buy you all pie if Kerry wins. What _kind_ of pie? ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/52 "2004-11-02T13:52:47Z")
Sinical Brit agrees whole heartedly with the OP. Sin ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/53 "2004-11-02T23:03:51Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > I shall buy you all pie if Kerry wins. I am about to trundle off to the polls (after an eleven-hour workday, a good chunk of it spent on my feet), in order to stand in line for _at least_ another hour, so that I can do my $&\*(#%!! civic duty. That better not be steak and kidney pie you’re offering. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/54 "2004-11-03T13:45:38Z")
Well, I tried. I guess the Straussian spell was just too hard to break. All I can do now is beg you to make sure they reap the whirlwind. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/55 "2004-11-03T15:36:03Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > I am now a Charter Member. This is the first board of any kind I have joined on the Web. It would have been easy to find a right-wing board, but what is the point of preaching to the choir? And besides, I will frankly and candidly admit that it is a lot of fun maintaining a cool head in the Pit while almost everyone else is behaving like a rabid hyena on angel dust. Welcome to the SDMB, **Roseworm**. I like you already. Do be careful, though. This board is heavily left leaning. You will find yourself outnumbered most, if not all, of the time simply due to your political views. Even if you behave honorably you will be vicously attacked. With Bush winning the election, things might get really tense around here. Read the rules and carefully obey them. The SDMB is still worth belonging to though. It’s the best message board on the net and many viewpoints and ideas are pleasantly exchanged here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304/56 "2004-11-03T15:38:21Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Well, I tried. I guess the Straussian spell was just too hard to break. > > All I can do now is beg you to make sure they reap the whirlwind. “They” who? We tried, too, many of us, and I’m really, really afraid of the whirlwind. I’ve never had such a sense of foreboding about an election’s results before. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sentientmeat-begs-america-fuck-neoconservatism/272304.md?page=2)