# Separating immigrants from their children is child abuse. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206 "2018-06-16T16:45:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/1 "2018-06-16T16:45:15Z")
This is a dastardly deed that Trump and Sessions have planned. it seems to me that they are doing this in order to force the Democrats to vote for their stupid border wall which nobody wants. I also think that they are using this as an opportunity to indoctrinate the immigrants to our country instead of allowing them to just come here and roam free. This isn’t something that our country should be involved in. How low will we go? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/2 "2018-06-16T16:57:09Z")
And on top of it all, they’re claiming this is a law forced through by the Democrats, so their hands are tied. If anyone had any doubts left about the inherent evil of these two, of the Republican Party or even your average Republican voter, this should erase it. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/3 "2018-06-16T17:01:41Z")
I realize that this subject isn’t really debatable and it’s more just a rant so feel free to transfer to the pit so people can cuss. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/4 "2018-06-16T18:20:56Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > And on top of it all, they’re claiming this is a law forced through by the Democrats, so their hands are tied. If anyone had any doubts left about the inherent evil of these two, of the Republican Party or even your average Republican voter, this should erase it. I may be wrong, but as I recall, Republicans control both houses of Congress and the Presidency. If there really is a law causing problems, they could change it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/5 "2018-06-16T18:36:17Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I may be wrong, but as I recall, Republicans control both houses of Congress and the Presidency. If there really is a law causing problems, they could change it. Yeah, but what they’ll do is load a bunch of other crap in like $25B for the border fence. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/6 "2018-06-16T18:53:41Z")
Figuratively Trump would hold your own children under water till you agreed with him and gave him what he wants, and meanwhile lie and blame you for your child drowning and also his wet shoes and suit, which he will hold over you as his normal way of negotiating. He is self justified in his actions. In truth he would get one of his subordinates to do so, but the effect would be the same. He is a very evil man who has hurt a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/7 "2018-06-16T19:11:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, but what they’ll do is load a bunch of other crap in like $25B for the border fence. I know that Trump has great\*\* respect for the law and understand he feels trapped, but it’s hard to complain about a law you have the power to change and are not even trying to as far as I can see. \*\*typo for no ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/8 "2018-06-16T19:13:01Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I know that Trump has great\*\* respect for the law and understand he feels trapped, but it’s hard to complain about a law you have the power to change and are not even trying to as far as I can see. > > \*\*typo for no It’s also a law that the Justice Dept has the discretion to enforce or not. This business about hands being tied is pure BS. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/9 "2018-06-16T19:30:17Z")
Obligatory cartoon: > **[Anti-Trump Cartoons Stopped by Censor at Pittsburgh Post-Gazette](https://fair.org/home/anti-trump-cartoons-stopped-by-censor-at-pittsburgh-post-gazette/)** > > The Post-Gazette refused to publish six of staff cartoonist Rob Rogers’ cartoons in a row. Four were directly critical of President Donald Trump, and two alluded to racism. Obligatory also in the sense that the cartoonist was censored first for that and other anti-Trump cartoons. [And then dismissed by the paper.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/business/media/pittsburgh-cartoonist-fired.html) Also reprehensible was Sessions trying to hide behind religion: “I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them for the purpose of order,” he said. Only that Romans 13 has a history all right, a history of being used by slavers to justify slavery in America and to discredit the American revolution too as it was used to defend the “divine rule of kings” then. And just like now, guys like Sessions likes to ignore what the rest of the bible says about foreigners in need. > **[The Fight to Define Romans 13](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/06/romans-13/562916/)** > > Jeff Sessions used it to justify his policy of family separation, but he’s not the first to invoke the biblical passage. > [@](#): > > Where does Jeff Sessions fit in this brief history of Romans 13? Sessions, like so many other Americans throughout history, thinks he has the Bible on his side. The verses Sessions chose to cite, and the interpretation that he has given them, is part of the broader Trump administration strategy of playing to the fears and identities of American evangelicals, who have been bringing Romans 13 back into public discourse since the rise of law-and-order politics and the Christian Right. But the Bible is a text less often read than read into. As many of his “church friends” persist in pointing out, Sessions did not cite the verse later in Romans 13 where Paul writes that God’s laws “are summed up in this word, ‘Love your neighbour as yourself,’” with the word “neighbour” echoing both parable of the Good Samaritan and the countless verses in the Law and the Prophets on treating the stranger and the immigrant with mercy. Sessions may claim the Bible’s contested authority, but what the attorney general actually has on his side is the thread of American history that justifies oppression and domination in the name of law and order. “As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your name— for they will hear of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm—when they come and pray toward this temple, then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Do whatever the foreigner asks of you, so that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your own people Israel, and may know that this house I have built bears your Name." (1 Kings 8:41-44) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/10 "2018-06-16T19:46:28Z")
Usually politicians seek political advantage from the extreme protection of children. The effort to derive political advantage from the wanton abuse of children is a refreshing change. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/11 "2018-06-16T19:56:26Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I may be wrong, but as I recall, Republicans control both houses of Congress and the Presidency. If there really is a law causing problems, they could change it. Ahhhh, but Trump and Republicans now admit that without 60 guaranteed votes in the Senate, then they “don’t” have a majority. Pot, kettle, black ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/12 "2018-06-16T20:02:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, but what they’ll do is load a bunch of other crap in like $25B for the border fence. Paul Ryan already put together a bill that includes funding for the wall, eliminates tearing children from their families, fixes DACA, and cuts down on legal migration (because that’s a brillliant way to stop illegal immigration, letmetellya). Other Republicans are dragging their feet, saying the issue “needs more study” on border security and such. As support for the bill doesn’t satisfy the Pedophile Hastert Rule, Republicans won’t bring it to the floor yet. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/13 "2018-06-16T20:33:38Z")
So what are we supposed to do? I am reading most immigrants arrive with children, even if they are not theirs, because they think they will get automatic asylum. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/14 "2018-06-16T21:06:24Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So what are we supposed to do? I am reading most immigrants arrive with children, even if they are not theirs, because they think they will get automatic asylum. Where on earth are you reading that nonsense? . ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/15 "2018-06-16T21:11:56Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So what are we supposed to do? I am reading most immigrants arrive with children, even if they are not theirs, because they think they will get automatic asylum. Keep families together while they await a decision on asylum? Is that something incredibly difficult to do or comprehend? “We” are building tent cities for children, stripped from their families (sometimes literally from their mother’s arms), in the South, in the middle of summer. I’m generally against human rights violations, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/16 "2018-06-16T21:21:17Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So what are we supposed to do? I am reading most immigrants arrive with children, even if they are not theirs, because they think they will get automatic asylum. Stop reading white supremacist news. This is a new policy designed to deter immigration. It is not some necessity imposed by circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/17 "2018-06-16T21:22:22Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Keep families together while they await a decision on asylum? Is that something incredibly difficult to do or comprehend? > “We” are building tent cities for children, stripped from their families (sometimes literally from their mother’s arms), in the South, in the middle of summer. I’m generally against human rights violations, are you? Depends on how you define human. There does seem to be quite a bit of effort going into demonizing and dehumanizing The Other these days. What would be utterly unthinkable to do to white people (how much debate was made over the rights of parents to hold onto their terminally ill and brain dead children recently), is perfectly acceptable to do to brown immigrants. That _anyone_ is okay with what is going on is a sad and poor reflection of how we are as a nation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/18 "2018-06-16T21:24:19Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Keep families together while they await a decision on asylum? Is that something incredibly difficult to do or comprehend? I’m genuinely curious: what happens in other cases? Let’s say a guy is arrested for armed robbery, or attempted murder, or whatever. And say, too, that he is now awaiting a trial to see if he’ll be executed or spend years behind bars or just get let go or whatever. And say as well, in order for the comparison to be useful, that (a) when he got arrested, he had a kid with him; and that (b) the kid with him has no other family in this country. Honest question: _what happens?_ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/19 "2018-06-16T21:26:34Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m genuinely curious: what happens in other cases? > > Let’s say a guy is arrested for armed robbery, or attempted murder, or whatever. And say, too, that he is now awaiting a trial to see if he’ll be executed or spend years behind bars or just get let go or whatever. And say as well, in order for the comparison to be useful, that (a) when he got arrested, he had a kid with him; and that (b) the kid with him has no other family in this country. > > Honest question: _what happens?_ As illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor, not a felony, it would be a better question to ask what happens to the children of people awaiting a trial to see if they will be paying a fine. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/20 "2018-06-16T21:34:52Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > As illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor, not a felony, it would be a better question to ask what happens to the children of people awaiting a trial to see if they will be paying a fine. Let’s say he is caught possessing a small amount of an illegal drug (also a misdemeanor) with the child in his care. Say he shoplifts? What if the parent is unable to post bond? Does the child sit in the holding cell with him? Further why do you make the felony/misdemeanor distinction? Many people are unable to post bonds on misdemeanors. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206.md?page=2)