# Separating immigrants from their children is child abuse. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206 "2018-06-16T16:45:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/241 "2018-06-18T20:26:57Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > What **LHoD** said. I think I made the same point even before **LHoD**. No doubt he(?) said it better. Anyway, here’s the interview with Republican Congressman Hurd that was on this morning: > **[Will Congress Address Immigration Border Controversy?](https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620967011/will-congress-address-immigration-border-controversy)** > > Steve Inskeep talks to Republican Rep. Will Hurd of Texas about the growing criticism against the Trump administration policy of separating parents and children crossing illegally into the U.S. Even he says that the current bills in consideration won’t actually address the problem and the administration has to do something (after basically calling Nielsen a liar). ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/242 "2018-06-18T21:39:27Z")
“It is a great honor to be here with all of my friends — so amazing and will never forget!” Donald Trump’s message in the guest book at the Israeli Holocaust memorial museum on May 23, 2017. He is proving that he hasn’t forgotten that day - monster was actually taking notes. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/243 "2018-06-18T21:58:23Z")
If family separation is such a great deterrent, why not roll it out if all crimes? I say we start with obstruction of justice and tax fraud, just to test it out. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, right? And if isn’t, then someone please explain why. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/244 "2018-06-18T22:11:47Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I assume you’re taking about non-asylum seekers here, but of course, those people are treated the same way as regular illegal entrants. So, limiting this to illegal entrants, the difference between citizens and residents being arrested and folks on the border is that the locals have actual neighborhood connections. So, if my wife and I were jailed, my neighbors, family, friends could step in and care for my children. In the worst case, children are placed into temporary foster care – I know a family that would take in infants for moms who were in custody – they were placed into their loving home, not put into fenced-in camp. Almost by definition, people who are just arriving at our border don’t have that kind of support network here. So, the normal way we treat normal criminals don’t provide any guidance here. What you’re describing is what is done for the children. They are transitioned to foster care. [NPR.](https://www.npr.org/2018/06/14/620085615/these-are-not-kids-kept-in-cages-inside-a-texas-shelter-for-immigrant-youth) The kids spend an average of 49 days in Casa Padre, which is contracted by the Department of Health and Human Services and the Office of Refugee Resettlement. Then they’re turned over to sponsors, such as family members or foster families. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/245 "2018-06-18T22:15:05Z")
I think that technically marital infidelity is against the law in lots of places, too. Maybe add that just to make sure that lawbreaking politicians know we’re coming after their kids. ---
**Author:** ![FavreCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@FavreCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FavreCo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/246 "2018-06-18T22:23:00Z")
These people need to go back to where they came from and apply for citizenship the right way. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/247 "2018-06-18T22:24:17Z")
> [@FavreCo](#): > > These people need to go back to where they came from and apply for citizenship the right way. Okay, they’re going back home, and OOPS, they were killed by the gang that threatened to kill them, the reason they left in the first place. They’re dead now, so problem solved, right? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/248 "2018-06-18T22:26:41Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/249 "2018-06-18T22:28:35Z")
> [@FavreCo](#): > > These people need to go back to where they came from and apply for citizenship the right way. Off the top of your head, explain that process. If you know what it is. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/250 "2018-06-18T23:03:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What you’re describing is what is done for the children. They are transitioned to foster care. [NPR.](https://www.npr.org/2018/06/14/620085615/these-are-not-kids-kept-in-cages-inside-a-texas-shelter-for-immigrant-youth) > > The kids spend an average of 49 days in Casa Padre, which is contracted by the Department of Health and Human Services and the Office of Refugee Resettlement. Then they’re turned over to sponsors, such as family members or foster families. Oh, it’s only 7 weeks in, well, a cage (according to the government)? Where none of the adults can actually physically comfort them, because they aren’t allowed to touch them at all? I think that’s going to work out really well for the hundred or so kids under 4, or the rest of the kids. Then, they get to go back to their parents…uh, someplace else, I mean. Meanwhile, the parents don’t know what’s happening to their kids, right? And, we’re doing this because we want to do this. I can’t tell if you’re defending what’s going on or just filling in more information. I’ll assumed it’s the latter since not even the Republicans are defending it. They are either lying about it (“it’s not our policy” “it’s the Democrats’ fault”) or condemning it, except for the more despicable members of the administration. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/251 "2018-06-18T23:06:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This administration made a deliberate choice to institute a policy of separation for deterrence purposes. the last administration deliberately made a choice to subvert our immigration policy with catch and release. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They made the choice that deliberately traumatizing children, to deter families in the future who don’t want their children traumatized, was good for America. This is probably the first time the kids were properly fed, housed and given the chance to play games on a regular basis. Housing these kids has been going on for some time and only became newsworthy recently. It’s this week’s edition of Trump of the Month hate club. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/252 "2018-06-18T23:11:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the last administration deliberately made a choice to subvert our immigration policy with catch and release. > > This is probably the first time the kids were properly fed, housed and given the chance to play games on a regular basis. Housing these kids has been going on for some time and only became newsworthy recently. > > It’s this week’s edition of Trump of the Month hate club. Who needs parents? Not brown kids, anyway. Good old American cages are so much better than their loving (but brown) parents can ever provide! ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/253 "2018-06-18T23:12:37Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Where none of the adults can actually physically comfort them, because they aren’t allowed to touch them at all. [Whistleblower talks about how he quit his job at a youth detention center after being forced to tell\* siblings \*they couldn’t hug each other.](https://www.democracynow.org/2018/6/18/whistleblower_i_quit_my_child_detention) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/254 "2018-06-18T23:13:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the last administration deliberately made a choice to subvert our immigration policy with catch and release… Nonsense. . ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/255 "2018-06-18T23:16:59Z")
I’ll tell you I’m probably not a typical voter. I lean more conservative on most issues, but I’m an atheist and believe in global warming and protecting the environment. I really don’t like illegal immigration and I don’t think it’s our job to save the rest of the world or take in its refugees. I think the American government should always put American interests first. But this is wrong, what we are doing is wrong, as a divorced Dad that doesn’t get to see his children everyday and hates it but gets them every single weekend and at any extra opportunity because I love them more than anything, it’s wrong to separate children from their parents and it’s completely unnecessary, it’s despicable and cruel. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/256 "2018-06-18T23:20:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the last administration deliberately made a choice to subvert our immigration policy with catch and release. I knew it was all Obama’s fault! It all makes sense now. Since this administrations main policy goal is to do the opposite of what Obama did, since he _didn’t_ separate parents from their children and house the children in camps, we could only expect this administration to do the opposite. > [@](#): > > This is probably the first time the kids were properly fed, housed and given the chance to play games on a regular basis. Housing these kids has been going on for some time and only became newsworthy recently… Cite, please, for widespread famine in Central America? This is the first I’ve heard of this. I thought they were fleeing violence. Anyway, even if that were true (and I’m heartened that you care about feeding the world!) couldn’t we, now I’m just spitballing here, but couldn’t we feed them while they were with their parents? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/257 "2018-06-18T23:26:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > To be fair, a “cage” brings to mind a 6 sided enclosure with a door that one would need to crawl through to enter. Cages come in stacks, and it is possible that when they hear “cage” they think that we are talking about somehting like [this.](https://www.petprosupplyco.com/products/jscottcreations-kennel-cage-banks?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=12225616117867&gclid=CjwKCAjwsJ3ZBRBJEiwAtuvtlBRe0vIJM-8ayDoVtj6jR2ltivLKuwpbOd4KB-AAtcjFiHBatifQkhoCpz0QAvD_BwE) And that we are claiming that children are being stuffed into them like [this.](https://k9kennelstore.com/GM/images/img23867794.jpg) > > I really didn’t think of it that way, and so it may be that it evokes images that somehow make people feel more uncomfortable with the notion of taking kids away from their parents, and so that is the reason for such resistance and nitpicking as to the term. > > Now, I don’t define a cage in that fashion, I consider a cage to be something that prevents someone from escaping. A fenced enclosure, to me, would be a cage. If someone called a prison cell a cage, I would not consider that to be hyperbole. > > However, there is something to be said for using language that is a better descriptor, and calling the places we are holding these children “cages” is both ambiguous and non-descriptive, allowing people to distract by nitpicking their definition. > > So, I propose a compromise. Rather than calling them cages, we should be calling the fenced in enclosures by what they more resemble, [kennels.](https://www.hayneedle.com/product/10x10lowpitchkennelcover.cfm?source=pla&kwid=PetCratesandKennels%20level01&tid=PP023-KC&adtype=pla&kw=&lsft=adtype:pla&gclid=CjwKCAjwsJ3ZBRBJEiwAtuvtlDiEM8I8BXFZV_2-oUIWAHSabIM093KlwCUNrMJykPfa3oC0hdysrBoCTrUQAvD_BwE) When I think of cages, the first thing that comes to mind is a large fenced-in enclosure on a construction site or inside a contractor’s shop that provides an additional level of security for high value items such as electronics and heavy gauge copper wire and pipe. They are most commonly made of chain link fencing although sometimes they use heavy metal grating. So for me, “cages” seems a perfect description. > [@UltraVires](#): > > If there is probable cause to believe that I committed a crime, I get separated from my child. I don’t understand why it is acceptable in every criminal context for U.S. citizens, but not for those suspected of illegal border crossing. Well, that’s true in the case of child abuse and serious crimes only -but in most cases the children be placed with the other parent, a grandparent or another family member. And even the minority of cases where the child goes into foster care, it’s in a family environment - not an institutionalized shelter type setting. Breaking up families is taken very seriously- I remember one celebrity case where a reality show couple was convicted of some sort of fraud and they were allowed to serve their sentences consecutively so the children wouldn’t be deprived of both parents at once. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/258 "2018-06-18T23:37:58Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If family separation is such a great deterrent, why not roll it out if all crimes? I say we start with obstruction of justice and tax fraud, just to test it out. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, right? And if isn’t, then someone please explain why. …isn’t that already the case? If someone gets arrested for obstruction of justice and tax fraud, and the kid with him has no other family here, then as I understand it that kid gets separated from (a) that family member, and therefore from (b) their family. And if the guy who got arrested goes on trial and gets sentenced to five years behind bars, well, then, the kid doesn’t spend five years in a cell with him, does he? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/259 "2018-06-18T23:46:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > …isn’t that already the case? If someone gets arrested for obstruction of justice and tax fraud, and the kid with him has no other family here, then as I understand it that kid gets separated from (a) that family member, and therefore from (b) their family. And if the guy who got arrested goes on trial and gets sentenced to five years behind bars, well, then, the kid doesn’t spend five years in a cell with him, does he? Most people who are arrested for a misdemeanor charge are released on on their own recognizance. Because we don’t presume they are guilty of a crime. They are given the whole “innocent until proven guilty” treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/260 "2018-06-18T23:56:29Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Cite, please, for widespread famine in Central America? This is the first I’ve heard of this. I thought they were fleeing violence. The two are not mutually exclusive -[Guatemala has the sixth-highest rate of child malnutrition in the world,](https://www.usaid.gov/what-we-do/global-health/nutrition/countries/guatemala-nutrition-profile) with 47% of children so chronically malnourished that their growth is stunted, up to 70% in some areas primarily populated by indigenous people. These are the same people who have been chronically deprived of all kinds of resources, including the protection of law enforcement. The Guatemalan government doesn’t do jack-squat for indigenous people, especially women. [Here’s some reading material.](https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/world/iyw-guatemala-gender-violence/index.html). [And there’s a lot more where this came from.](https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/eoir/legacy/2013/11/07/GTM104067.E.pdf) I am just posting sources on Guatemala specifically because my office has more Guatemalan clients than from other Central American countries, so I’m more familiar with the source material but it’s not exactly difficult to find info on just how shitty the situation is in El Salvador or Honduras, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206.md?page=14)