# Separating immigrants from their children is child abuse. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206 "2018-06-16T16:45:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/441 "2018-06-21T17:27:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Be serious. If it’s common knowledge that crossing with a kid gets you set free and not crossing with a kid gets you jailed, what do you think is going to happen? [Kirstjen, is that you?](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/18/family-separations-kirstjen-nielsen-650876) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/442 "2018-06-21T17:39:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Everyone in China risks death for their political views if they are not the views of the government. That’s open and shut. This may be shocking to you, but not everyone in China disagree with their government or the system they live under. Some certainly do, there is always dissent at some level even if suppressed, but the notion everyone in China is horribly oppressed is ridiculous. Those who benefit from the system as it is are largely for it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/443 "2018-06-21T17:45:53Z")
Trafficking kids is terrible, of course, but fortunately most people (including most brown people) aren’t monsters. Trump would have you believe differently, certainly, but Trump is wrong, and most Central Americans are actually decent humans who would never traffick children. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/444 "2018-06-21T17:53:31Z")
So desperate enough to illegally cross borders, fail to appear in court, steal someone’s identity, commit document fraud, but saying a child is yours when it isn’t is just beyond the pale? Right. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/445 "2018-06-21T17:59:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So desperate enough to illegally cross borders, fail to appear in court, steal someone’s identity, commit document fraud, but saying a child is yours when it isn’t is just beyond the pale? Right. Stop handwaving and back up your claim. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/446 "2018-06-21T18:06:38Z")
My claim was a prediction of what happens when you create an incentive. Are you implying that this doesn’t, and won’t, happen? Are you claiming that people are not crossing the border with kids in their custody who are not their own? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/447 "2018-06-21T18:07:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So desperate enough to illegally cross borders, fail to appear in court, steal someone’s identity, commit document fraud, but saying a child is yours when it isn’t is just beyond the pale? Right. Easily solved. We can just stamp the kids on the left flank with “NO RE-ENTRY,” right below the U.S. Customs and Border Patrol logo we brand them with. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/448 "2018-06-21T18:13:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > My claim was a prediction of what happens when you create an incentive. Are you implying that this doesn’t, and won’t, happen? Are you claiming that people are not crossing the border with kids in their custody who are not their own? As I posted in another thread about another of your “facts”- it is your claim, so it is on you to back it up. “Prove it ain’t so!” just doesn’t cut it here, and hasn’t for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/449 "2018-06-21T18:19:55Z")
My claim was a prediction. Your request does not apply. If you disagree with my prediction, make your arguments. You can start by explaining this: > **[Hundreds of Immigrant Children Have Been Taken From Parents at U.S. Border...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/us/immigrant-children-separation-ice.html)** > > The Trump administration says it separates immigrant families only when necessary to protect the child. But the government’s own figures show this has happened in more than 700 cases. > [@](#): > > Others have admitted to posing falsely with children who are not their own, and Border Patrol officials say that such instances of fraud are increasing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/450 "2018-06-21T18:20:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So desperate enough to illegally cross borders, fail to appear in court, steal someone’s identity, commit document fraud, but saying a child is yours when it isn’t is just beyond the pale? Right. If you’re going to just say things about the asylum seekers without offering any cites, then will you dispute me if I say that US officials have been secretly sacrificing UACs in the basement of Trump hotels to worship the Demon God Baal, while Don Junior looks on approvingly from his throne made of the bones of immigrants? > [@](#): > > My claim was a prediction. Your request does not apply. If you disagree with my prediction, make your arguments. You can start by explaining this: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/u...ation-ice.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/u...ation-ice.html) Great. So now those fuckers are not just facing deportation, but several decades in a Federal prison for kidnapping. The system works. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/451 "2018-06-21T18:20:58Z")
The other key part: > [@](#): > > Protecting children at the border is complicated because there have, indeed, been instances of fraud. Tens of thousands of migrants arrive there every year, and those with children in tow are often released into the United States more quickly than adults who come alone, because of restrictions on the amount of time that minors can be held in custody. Some migrants have admitted they brought their children not only to remove them from danger in such places as Central America and Africa, but because they believed it would cause the authorities to release them from custody sooner. So yeah, incentives matter. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/452 "2018-06-21T18:25:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If you’re going to just say things about the asylum seekers without offering any cites, then will you dispute me if I say that US officials have been secretly sacrificing UACs in the basement of Trump hotels to worship the Demon God Baal, while Don Junior looks on approvingly from his throne made of the bones of immigrants? > > Great. So now those fuckers are not just facing deportation, but several decades in a Federal prison for kidnapping. The system works. That’s not really how it works, since these kids might not have been taken by force. But sure, the system works. As long as we don’t just let people go free because they have a kid in tow. Keep in mind that the policy I’m advocating here is letting them ALL go. If you can’t detain people with children, you can’t fairly detain people without them. It’s not only unfair, it’s a horrible incentive. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/453 "2018-06-21T18:30:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The other key part: > > So yeah, incentives matter. So would humanity, but with this administration that is not a factor. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/454 "2018-06-21T18:33:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Keep in mind that the policy I’m advocating here is letting them ALL go. If you can’t detain people with children, you can’t fairly detain people without them. It’s not only unfair, it’s a horrible incentive. Of curse since it was shown that not even progressives think like that you need to continue to propose solutions tailored to unicorn administrations. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/455 "2018-06-21T18:34:33Z")
Doesn’t matter what progressives think, detaining singles and letting families go is bad policy. And probably illegal, since it violates equal protection. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/456 "2018-06-21T18:40:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Doesn’t matter what progressives think, detaining singles and letting families go is bad policy. And probably illegal, since it violates equal protection. Do you ever do any research before offering legal theories? Have you bothered to try to learn how equal protection claims apply to the exercise of prosecutorial discretion? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/457 "2018-06-21T18:41:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Doesn’t matter what progressives think, detaining singles and letting families go is bad policy. And probably illegal, since it violates equal protection. American taxpaying families get a tax credit for each kid they have. Does that violate equal protection? But aside from all your predictions and conjecture, I think you do have a fundamentally sound point: decisions on which immigrants may have a bad claim to asylum needs to be judged on a case-by-case basis. A single person with no kids who had a great life until MS-13 put a contact on him/her need not be automatically locked up; if the Central American equivalent of the Manson family shows up in Texas, they need not be automatically released into whatever supervisory program they could be eligible for. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/458 "2018-06-21T19:22:24Z")
Wait, they are asking for asylum because of violence back home. Not government sponsored like nazis killing Jews. Its violence from gang wars and crime. Well heck, sounds like many American communities. So how can they hope for asylum from that? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/459 "2018-06-21T19:23:41Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Wait, they are asking for asylum because of violence back home. Not government sponsored like nazis killing Jews. Its violence from gang wars and crime. > Well heck, sounds like many American communities. > > So how can they hope for asylum from that? You can’t possibly be serious with this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/460 "2018-06-21T19:27:28Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You can’t possibly be serious with this. It is refreshing to see the pretense of being afraid of masses of child-kidnapping thugs of another color dropped in favor of just not giving a shit about terrorized immigrants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206.md?page=24)