# Separating immigrants from their children is child abuse. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206 "2018-06-16T16:45:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/41 "2018-06-17T02:16:16Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Again, not the way it should be done, and there are other reasons why it should not. The way it should be done is to follow the rule of law in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/42 "2018-06-17T02:34:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The way it should be done is to follow the rule of law in the first place. The rule was set expecting that ass-holes like the current administration would not be in a position to interpret it in the worst possible way. And then the rule of law can be said to have been twisted even further. > **[The Trump administration’s separation of families at the border, explained](https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separated-parents)** > > Why children are being sent to "foster care or whatever" while their parents are sent to jail. > [@](#): > > 1. Is the policy of separating families new? > > Yes. But it’s building on an existing system, and attention to family separation has brought more awareness to problems with that system that have been going on for some time. > > For the past several years, a growing number of people coming into the US without papers have been Central Americans — often families, and often seeking asylum. Asylum seekers and families are both accorded particular protections in US and international law, which make it impossible for the government to simply send them back. Those protections also put strict limits on the length of time, and conditions, in which children can be kept in immigration detention. > > When the Obama administration attempted to respond to the “crisis” of families and unaccompanied children crossing the border in summer 2014, it put hundreds of families in immigration detention — a practice that had basically ended several years before. But federal courts stopped the administration from holding families for months without justifying the decision to keep them in detention. So most families ended up getting released while their cases were pending — which immigration hawks have derided as “catch and release.” In some cases, they disappeared into the US rather than showing up for their court dates. > > The Trump administration has stepped up detention of asylum seekers (and immigrants, period). But because there are such strict limits on keeping children in immigration detention, it’s had to release most of the families it’s caught. > > The government’s solution has been to prosecute larger numbers of immigrants for illegal entry — including, in a break from previous administrations, large numbers of asylum seekers. That allows the Trump administration to ship children off to ORR, rather than keeping them in immigration detention. And now we can see one reason why Trump threatens to leave the UN Human Rights Council, those human rights are really a bother. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/43 "2018-06-17T03:31:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The rule was set expecting that ass-holes like the current administration would not be in a position to interpret it in the worst possible way. And then the rule of law can be said to have been twisted even further. yes, we’ll just pretend the sanctuary cities didn’t create the situation in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/44 "2018-06-17T03:54:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes, we’ll just pretend the sanctuary cities didn’t create the situation in the first place. We’ll just realise that you have no good reply to what was posted so it stands. ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/45 "2018-06-17T04:07:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The OP is too general, and assumes we are all talking about the illegal immigration/asylum issue. \*\*There are certainly some times when children need to be separated form their parents. One might even argue that illegally smuggling children across the border (especially in dangerous circumstances) is child abuse. > \*\* > But, as noted, this is a new policy rooted in punishing the parents or deterring future border crossing by others, not protecting the child. It’s using children as pawns in a policy ploy. We should not be doing this. (Emphasis mine) The white privilege packed into this statement is pretty amusing. I bet it never occurred to the poster here that raising a child in an abject poverty is a form of child abuse. Have you? Of course not. Does the poster know that there are children in Central and South America whose whole existence rifling through trash to find food? If you saw a child in your neighborhood going through your trash cans for food, would you even register this as abnormal or even something reportable to the authorities? Or would you ignore it because, you know, it’s all good? Your last paragraph is insufficient. This isn’t a policy “rooted in punishing parents” or “deterring future border crossing[s].” It is a policy rooted in white supremacy. It is rooted in the dehumanization of Hispanics. It is policy crafted to incite schadenfreude with Trump supporters. This isn’t new. White folks deliberately separated Native Americans from their families, white folks deliberately separated African-Americans from their families, and white folks are deliberately separating Hispanic families from each other. White folks are masters at cloaking hateful policies under the thin veneer of “law and order” and manifest destiny". ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/46 "2018-06-17T04:09:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The way it should be done is to follow the rule of law in the first place. What does this even mean? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/47 "2018-06-17T04:09:32Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > We’ll just realise that you have no good reply to what was posted so it stands. And we’ll just realize that you can’t deal with reality. The sanctuary cities created an outlet to hide illegal aliens. The result is incarceration to prevent this from happening. ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/48 "2018-06-17T04:16:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes, we’ll just pretend the sanctuary cities didn’t create the situation in the first place. This highlights, in my view, the futility in the opposition. There is no way to get them to take responsibility for their actions. It’s always someone else’s fault. You’re inhumanely separating children from their families? It’s OK because the Democrats created the situation in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/49 "2018-06-17T04:16:43Z")
“Sanctuary cities” are to blame? Codswallop. Stuff and nonsense. . ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/50 "2018-06-17T04:17:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And we’ll just realize that you can’t deal with reality. The sanctuary cities created an outlet to hide illegal aliens. The result is incarceration to prevent this from happening. Ah, the “why are you making me hurt you?” Defense. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/51 "2018-06-17T04:20:54Z")
I posted this snippet in another thread but believe it’s very relevant here. I’ve put the relevant portions in bold. > [@Dr. Colleen Craft](#): > > I’ve been a pediatrician for 30 years. I’ve cared for thousands of children, providing support for parents to encourage their babies’ development, and recommendations to guide them through the joys and challenges of parenting. I’ve helped navigate children and families through illness, developmental disabilities and life-threatening conditions. Recently though, I met a little girl in a border town in Texas who will forever stand out in my mind. Unlike the patients I’ve treated in my exam room, I was helpless to comfort her. > > **The little girl was a toddler, her face splotched red from crying, her fists balled up in frustration, pounding on a play mat in the shelter for unaccompanied children run by the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Refugee Resettlement. No parent was there to scoop her up, no known and trusted adult to rub her back and soothe her sobs. The staff members at the center tried their best, and shared my heartbreak while watching this child writhe on the floor, alone .** > [http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...503-story.html](http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...503-story.html) The Republicans, of course, will blame the child, the parent, and Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/52 "2018-06-17T04:21:16Z")
I’ve tolerated a lot of shit from MAGA voters. But to anyone who supports this kind of policy, fuck you - you’re no different than a Pole who winked and nodded at Auschwitz or a German who smiled at Jews being loaded on the train to Buchenwald. If this is you, if you believe that this is just and humane, then I shit on you. You fuckers are in that category. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/53 "2018-06-17T04:23:07Z")
The people who do this, there is a common story. They gather all the cash they can beg or borrow, and give it to unreliable men who will guide them on a dangerous journey. With no guarantee they will even arrive, much less be admitted. And if they fail, they either die or will be returned to whatever desperate situation moved them to flee in the first place. Worse off than when they left. And they take their kids. How desperate and fearful would you need to be to take such a slim chance? How many have died trying, how many died after we sent them back. We have no idea, not the slightest. This is an awful situation, likely to get worse, as Central America falls from brutal autocracy to mere anarchy. Can’t say with any honesty I know what to do. But I’m _damn_ sure we can do better than this. ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/54 "2018-06-17T04:24:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And we’ll just realize that you can’t deal with reality. The sanctuary cities created an outlet to hide illegal aliens. The result is incarceration to prevent this from happening. Let me tell you something that you may (or may not) get in the real-world: You and only you are responsible for your actions. The whole reasoning reminds me of those cowardly abusers beating their wife and telling her afterwards “It’s your fault I beat you” or “I only beat you because you mouthed off”. I just don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/55 "2018-06-17T04:25:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No one is losing their child. They’re being separated while in custody. [This is fucking children up.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/06/16/america-is-better-than-this-what-a-doctor-saw-in-a-texas-shelter-for-migrant-children/?utm_term=.5f8143f22841) > [@](#): > > The really basic, foundational needs of having trust in adults as a young child was not being met. That contradicts everything we know that the kids need to build their health,” Kraft [a pediatrician who visited one of these detention centers] said. > > Such a situation could have long-term, devastating effects on young children, who are likely to develop what is called toxic stress in their brain once separated from caregivers or parents they trusted. It disrupts a child’s brain development and increases the levels of fight-or-flight hormones in their bodies, Kraft said. This kind of emotional trauma could eventually lead to health problems, such as heart disease and substance abuse disorders. The Republican and Trump policy of blaming everyone else–Democrats, Sanctuary Cities, the parents, the children themselves–is outrageous. Trump could change this policy tomorrow. He has said, instead, that he will continue to enforce his appalling policy in order to gain leverage over Democrats. He is literally holding small children hostage in order to advance his partisan purposes. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/56 "2018-06-17T05:07:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And we’ll just realize that you can’t deal with reality. The sanctuary cities created an outlet to hide illegal aliens. The result is incarceration to prevent this from happening. You’re an animal; you’re not human. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/57 "2018-06-17T05:20:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And we’ll just realize that you can’t deal with reality. The sanctuary cities created an outlet to hide illegal aliens. The result is incarceration to prevent this from happening. As others pointed, it is the bubble of information where you get your version of reality the one that is filled with nonsequiteur arguments and nonsense. And that reply of yours is just about the second time where there was no reply to what I posted, so that stands still. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/58 "2018-06-17T06:25:14Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > The way it should be done is to follow the rule of law in the first place. > > What does this even mean? He appears to believe that the immigrants are responsible for their own abuse. To blame the victims of authoritarian abuse is not just unconstructive and bizarre, but shows an appalling lack of empathy and perspective. Many of these immigrants are continuing northward and [crossing into Canada](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/quebec-sees-surge-in-border-crossings-600-entered-last-weekend-1.3873597), where at least they’re treated humanely. Technically they aren’t permitted to apply for refugee status because of the Safe Third Country Agreement to which Canada and the US are signatories, stating that a refugee must apply for asylum in the first “safe” country in which he or she lands. This is increasingly being overlooked because the US is manifestly not a safe haven for most of these people, who are simply arrested and systematically deported. It’s been argued that the Safe Third Country Agreement is pretty much meaningless in Trump’s America, just like the inscription on the Statue of Liberty. > [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > I posted this snippet in another thread but believe it’s very relevant here. I’ve put the relevant portions in bold. > > The Republicans, of course, will blame the child, the parent, and Democrats. All of which they’ve already done. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/59 "2018-06-17T07:24:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As others pointed, it is the bubble of information where you get your version of reality the one that is filled with nonsequiteur arguments and nonsense. And that reply of yours is just about the second time where there was no reply to what I posted, so that stands still. I didn’t create sanctuary cities. They’re being used to deliberately hide illegal aliens.This is not up for debate. That’s the reality of the situation. It was a deliberate political effort by the Democratic Party to circumvent the law. In what can only be described as a coordinated effort the sanctuary cities were fed by way of a catch-and-release initiative. the only way to stop this is to end the catch-and-release program and incarcerate those breaking the law. That does not include their children. [they’ go to shelters](https://www.npr.org/2018/06/14/620085615/these-are-not-kids-kept-in-cages-inside-a-texas-shelter-for-immigrant-youth) where they’re probably better cared for than their parents while they await foster care. All this can easily be corrected by eliminating sanctuary cities and voting on the immigration act which should be an easy task for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206/60 "2018-06-17T07:28:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And we’ll just realize that you can’t deal with reality. The sanctuary cities created an outlet to hide illegal aliens. The result is incarceration to prevent this from happening. Yep, has nothing to do with the American addiction to drugs (causing cartel violence across the southern part of the continent and into South America) or the American addiction to cheap things (migrant labor for produce, cheap labor in food service/landscaping/housekeeping/etc.) or the American addiction to fucking with governments outside of our borders. Nope, just those dirty sanctuary cities giving illegals free rides and safe haven (which conveniently ignores those “STATES RIGHTS” so many on the right cry about). And hell, let’s ignore that almost 1500 immigrant children, placed with people who are not their parents, in the US, are unaccounted for. They literally have no idea where they are. And shit, can’t put them in federal detention. Let’s just throw them in an [abandoned Wal-Mart](https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2018/06/15/inside-casa-padre-the-converted-walmart-where-the-us-is-holding-nearly-1500-immigrant-children/) or fucking [tent cities](https://twitter.com/TexasTribune/status/1008121514493956097). “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” was not a quote condoning the abuse of kids. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separating-immigrants-from-their-children-is-child-abuse/816206.md?page=4)