# Separation of Church and State **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2000, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separation-of-church-and-state/41103 "2000-11-14T02:40:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separation-of-church-and-state/41103/1 "2000-11-14T02:40:13Z")
I don’t know if this has been thoroughly answered here before, but I have a feeling some of you will know. On another message board I’m currently having a debate with someone who’s saying that the US constitution/DofC makes no provision for the separation of church and state. Foul, sez I. But I can’t remember exactly where as much is stated. Anyone want to help me out here? Any help is much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separation-of-church-and-state/41103/2 "2000-11-14T03:04:15Z")
Well, I hate to break it to you, but the “separation of hurch and state” line is not mentioned in the Constitution. The Supreme Court has generally held that it was the intention of the First Ammendment, however. To search Supreme Court cases for their opinions: [http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/supreme.html](http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/supreme.html) ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separation-of-church-and-state/41103/3 "2000-11-14T03:15:19Z")
IANAL, but: > [@](#): > > _From the U.S. Constitution_ > Amendment I > **Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion** , or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. (emphasis mine) The term “wall between church and state” comes from a speech Thomas Jefferson’s made in 1802. But, many have held that the emphasized text prevents the government from encouraging any particular form of religious worship, and this has been affirmed many times by the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separation-of-church-and-state/41103/4 "2000-11-14T03:17:32Z")
The _words_ “separation of church and state” don’t appear anywhere in the U.S. Constitution; neither do the words “separation of powers” or (if you want to be really nitpicky about it) “freedom of religion”. From the [Bill of Rights](http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/billrights/billrights.html): > [@](#): > > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. It’s that first clause, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” (the “Establishment Clause”), which mandates separation of church and state in the United States. Thomas Jefferson wrote, in a [January 1, 1802 letter to the Baptists of Danbury, CT](http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.jeffers.2.html): > [@](#): > > I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between church and State. The first section of the Fourteenth Amendment is what generally extends the protections of the Bill of Rights to state governments. > [@](#): > > All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. I believe every state constitution also has specific church-state separation language as well. Note also the last clause of Article VI: > [@](#): > > The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. Finally, what’s the “DofC”? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separation-of-church-and-state/41103/5 "2000-11-14T06:48:55Z")
“DofC” I meant DofI . . . sometimes I foul things up. DofC is declaration of constitution . . . I’d like to use the excuse that I haven’t gotten much sleep, but I don’t think anyone’s going to buy that as I got plenty of rest this weekend. Attribute it to general brain fartiness. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/separation-of-church-and-state/41103/6 "2000-11-14T16:26:08Z")
Well, the Declaration of Independence doesn’t say anything about SOCAS–in fact, it mentions God several times (although not Jesus Christ by name, or the Holy Trinity, or the Bible) and is therefore often quoted by the Religious Right. The DofI _does_ say that governments derive their powers from the consent of the governed, which I would argue is inconsistent with the Biblical view of government. (See [Romans 13](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=ROM+13&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on), or the selection of first Saul and then David as king in 1 Samuel, chapters [9](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1SAM+9&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on) and [16](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1SAM+16&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on).)