# Sept 11,2001 - 4 years later - has Dubya learned anything? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963 "2005-09-10T06:27:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/1 "2005-09-10T06:27:43Z")
Yes, I’m starting another Dubya-Bashing thread - and rightly so!!! To me it is scary that it is now exactly _4 years_ since the WTC / Pentagon attacks, and the President’s reaction to _another_ national emergency / tragedy is that of a totally clueless, braindead, “deer in the headlights” buffoon. Unlike Sept 11, 2001, you could see _this_ one coming - literally. There’s not much anyone can do to stop a hurricane but damn it, couldn’t our Chief Executive take charge and _prepare_ for the areas that would be hit? The scary thing is that our government, headed by our Chief Executive, has had \*four fucking years \* to be ready for something like this yet what did we get? Confusion, chaos and crime. And after the worst attack on American soil, didn’t the dipshit President realize that appointing someone to lead an EMERGENCY response agency would require that person to know what the Hell they were doing? Dubya can’t even lead properly (or speak for that matter). As I mentioned in another thread, what did Dubya say or do four years ago that helped raise the American morale? “Bring it on” ??? or referring to Osama Bin Laden - “You can run but you can’t hide.” ? Wow and wasn’t Bin Laden’s comeuppance shortly forthcoming? Truly “inspiring”. Well at least Dubya doesn’t _think_ about him anymore. :rolleyes: Four years later, what other stirring messages does Dubya have for us? Saying “Brownie” is doing a great job ??? or even scarier: > [@](#): > > At a news conference, Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif), said Bush’s choice for head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency had “absolutely no credentials.” > > She related that she had urged Bush at the White House on Tuesday to fire Michael Brown. > > “He said ‘Why would I do that?’” Pelosi said. > > “‘I said because of all that went wrong, of all that didn’t go right last week.’ > And he said ‘ **What didn’t go right**?’” And before any SDMB conservatives start thinking about blaming this on the Democrats, liberals, bleeding hearts, whatever - think about this. The Supreme Court consists of SEVEN Republican appointees. (Yes Rehnquist is dead but I thought I’d mention him because he was appointed by Nixon - a Republican. AND if Roberts gets “the nod” then the Republican appointees reamin at seven.) Both houses of Congress have had Republican majorities since the late 1990’s. And Our Chief Executator (a Republican) has been President since January 20, 2001. Well there you have the Republican’s turn at government. Just one more thing. Possibly my favorite President, Theodore Roosevelt, (a Republican by the way) said a rather applicable quote for how Dubya has behaved. TR said “in any situation the _best_ thing to do is the \*right \*thing. The _second_ best thing is the _wrong_ thing - and the _worst_ thing to do is to do _nothing_”. Sadly, when the statistics in New Orleans are tallied, Dubya _might_ have the dubious distinction of being the American President that had 2 disasters (1 of violence, 1 of nature) that were the worst in our nation’s history. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/2 "2005-09-10T07:56:35Z")
He learned how to waste millions of dollars to form a totally worthless, useless governmental agency. And to bury a formerly useful agency in it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/3 "2005-09-10T08:06:24Z")
I hate Bush as much as the next guy (unless the next guy is **Reeder** ,) but I think you’re overstating things a bit. Yes, the response was a catastrophic fuck up, and it is in large part the fault of the federal government – but there were also failures at the municipal and state level, and it’s silly to ignore them altogether. The Supreme Court and Congress have very little to do with this. Sweet FA as far as the Supremes are concerned, and Congress actually fought for double the funding that Bush’s budget allowed for the SELA project to bolster the levees. Still a cut, overall, but they at least fought for a compromise. No blame there, right? You’d probably find it more effective to focus your anger toward the responsible parties (ie; the Bush White House, FEMA, and the local officials of _whatever_ political party) instead of towards Republicans in general. Otherwise, people might dismiss you as a partisan ranter – and those sorts of charges could stick to other people who make similar (and more valid) charges. Which would be a bummer, man. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/4 "2005-09-10T13:40:52Z")
I’m inclined to agree, Larry Mudd, except I imagine that the state and local officials (gov, mayor, etc.) ran for office playing on a variety of skills, experiences, and priorities. I sincerely doubt, however, that their main singular selling point was “I will respond best to LA/NO if disaster were to strike.” But that **is** what Bush said a year ago. That has been the keystone to his presidency and the basis for the fear-mongering and mud-slinging of all his opponents: They don’t have what it takes to keep America safe. They won’t do what’s necessary to respond. I do. Completely inarticulate about social policies, and inept at explaining himself out of his economic (decidedly non-conservative) two-facedness, his primary selling point was Homeland Defense. I know plenty of people who were not happy with his defecit-spending or ultraconservative social policies, but they were willing to let it slide because they believed National Security (and the War on Terror) was still the greatest challenge facing the nation, and Bush was virtually a one-trick pony championing his own strengths. And now we have Katrina. This was supposed to play to his strengths. This was an opportunity to show what he’s accomplished in four years. This was his time to demonstrably prove in a truly tangible way that 9/11 did change everything, and here’s the Proof. And it’s been a complete failure on many levels. So yes, Blanco & Nigen & co. all need to burden some of the blame. But we, as a nation, were sold a bill of goods on Bush based on One Towering Truth. And that truth (which was trumpeted by every GOP candidate across this country) has proven to be a lie. The Republicans as a party need to accept responsibility. They never had a problem blaming Congress when Reagan was president, and blaming Clinton when they ran the House and Senate. Well, they’ve got both now, and have for a while, and now we can see that they aren’t any better for this country than the people they so casually smear. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/5 "2005-09-10T14:05:20Z")
Bush and his cronies haven’t learned a damn thing in the past 6-7 (?) years. What we are seeing is incompetence and cronyism at its worst. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/6 "2005-09-10T14:11:28Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > What we are seeing is incompetence and cronyism at its worst. and arrogance! our greatest strenghts are incompetence, cronyism, arrogance. and dogmatism. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/7 "2005-09-10T14:16:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Dubya might have the dubious distinction of being the American President that had 2 disasters (1 of violence, 1 of nature) that were the worst in our nation’s history. I’m confused. Was the 2000 election the violent disaster and the 2004 election the natural disaster or was it the other way around? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/8 "2005-09-10T14:17:51Z")
> [@Snakescatlady](#): > > He learned how to waste millions of dollars to form a totally worthless, useless governmental agency. And to bury a formerly useful agency in it. I posted this in another thread in Great Debates, but it was pretty much ignored. So I’ll post it here. For all of you people who are trying to give Bush all the “blame” for creating the Department of Homeland Security and bogging it down into beauracracy, I have some more people you can blame: [Blame Lieberman too](http://lieberman.senate.gov/issues/govaffairs.html) [Blame the Democrats too](http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=246) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/9 "2005-09-10T14:18:58Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > I’m confused. Was the 2000 election the violent disaster and the 2004 election the natural disaster or was it the other way around? Does it matter? Once again, more people are dead because of governmental and bureaucratic stupidity, incompetence and corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/10 "2005-09-10T15:41:45Z")
Short answer; No Long answer: NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (Props to John Stewart) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/11 "2005-09-10T16:08:35Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I posted this in another thread in Great Debates, but it was pretty much ignored. So I’ll post it here. > > For all of you people who are trying to give Bush all the “blame” for creating the Department of Homeland Security and bogging it down into beauracracy, I have some more people you can blame: > [Blame Lieberman too](http://lieberman.senate.gov/issues/govaffairs.html) > [Blame the Democrats too](http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=246) Ah, the Animal House defense: “You fucked up. You trusted [Bush].” :wally ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/12 "2005-09-10T16:56:03Z")
The Republicans established the Department of Homeland Security, the Republicans savagely slandered anyone who dared suggest that it wasn’t a perfect idea, the Republicans set the levels of fundings, the Republicans decided how that funding would be distributed, the Republicans put an incompetent moron whose only strength was being a crony of their own fundraiser into the chief spot of FEMA, the Republicans put who knows how many other incompetent morons into other important positions in the department. So whose fault when FEMA and the DHS couldn’t provide an adequate response to this catastrophe? The Democrats, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/13 "2005-09-10T18:43:01Z")
> [@wring](#): > > and arrogance! our greatest strenghts are incompetence, cronyism, arrogance. and dogmatism. I’ll come in again. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/14 "2005-09-10T19:09:49Z")
> [@wring](#): > > and arrogance! our greatest strenghts are incompetence, cronyism, arrogance. and dogmatism. And a Fanatical devotion to George Bush! ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/15 "2005-09-10T19:35:08Z")
_Our five greatest strenghts are incompetence, cronyism, arrogance, dogmatism, a fanatical devotion to George Bush and_ **ruthless inefficiency**!!! No wait let me rephrase that. Amongst our weaponry are such elements as incompetence, cronynism, arrogance … > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Fish** > > I’ll come in again. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/16 "2005-09-10T19:52:08Z")
Well, now that this thread has turned into a Monty Python sketch, maybe we should wait until a new thread starts up about Bush’s ineptitude OR maybe even a thread about something _NOBODY_ would ever suspect. **Larry Mudd** - No I really didn’t intend this thread to be a partisan rant against the Republicans in general. It’s more about the lack of change in our nation’s response (particularly our Chief Executive) toward handling an emergency when we’ve had 4 years to be prepared for a tragedy such as this. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/17 "2005-09-10T21:42:55Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Ah, the Animal House defense: “You fucked up. You trusted [Bush].” :wally No…read the cites. Bush was against creating a new govt beauracracy with the DHS, but Lieberman and other Democrats insisted. So Bush cooperated. Now Bush is getting **ALL** the blame? Sorry, chumley…can’t have it both ways (not in the real world, anyway). > [@ITR Champion](#): > > The Republicans established the Department of Homeland Security, the Republicans savagely slandered anyone who dared suggest that it wasn’t a perfect idea, the Republicans set the levels of fundings, the Republicans decided how that funding would be distributed, the Republicans put an incompetent moron whose only strength was being a crony of their own fundraiser into the chief spot of FEMA, the Republicans put who knows how many other incompetent morons into other important positions in the department. So whose fault when FEMA and the DHS couldn’t provide an adequate response to this catastrophe? > > The Democrats, of course. You have no idea what you are talking about. From the cites I posted, which you obviously didn’t (or couldn’t) read: > [@](#): > > As Chairman of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, **Senator Lieberman led the fight to create a new Department of Homeland Security**. One month after the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, Senator Lieberman introduced legislation to reorganize the federal government to better protect the American people from terrorism and steered a bipartisan plan through his committee. **After months of opposing the plan, the White House eventually endorsed the concept.** > [@](#): > > ``` > Fleischer (Oct 24, 2001):**[T]he president has suggested to members of Congress that…there does not need to be a Cabinet-level Office of Homeland Security is because there is such overlap among the various agencies, because every agency of the government has security concerns.** > > ``` > > **Bush didn’t change course until several months later.** Bolding mine Get it? I’m not trying to blame the Democrats for all of the problems. That would be just as foolish as blaming Bush for all the problems. Just trying to fight a little ignorance and bring some people back to reality. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/18 "2005-09-10T22:28:51Z")
**Psycho Pirate** Since you went to a lot of trouble for that posting, I figured someone should acknowledge it. Yes, you are right, I can see the blame does _not_ rest squarely with the Republicans. Still, (and without pointing any fingers), I _hope_ that _if_ we have another national tragedy, we will be much better prepared. Somehow, even with this “lesson”, I’m not so certain the USA will be ready. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/19 "2005-09-11T02:04:06Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > The Republicans established the Department of Homeland Security, the Republicans savagely slandered anyone who dared suggest that it wasn’t a perfect idea, the Republicans set the levels of fundings, the Republicans decided how that funding would be distributed, the Republicans put an incompetent moron whose only strength was being a crony of their own fundraiser into the chief spot of FEMA, the Republicans put who knows how many other incompetent morons into other important positions in the department. So whose fault when FEMA and the DHS couldn’t provide an adequate response to this catastrophe? > > The Democrats, of course. Well, look, of course it’s the Dems’ fault for [bucking the grand tradition of FEMA-staffing so faithfully adhered to by the Republicans](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_09/007094.php). I mean, look how Clinton had the nerve to appoint a whole management team at FEMA that was qualified and competent. Why, that just raises people’s expectations to completely unreasonable heights! As Marvelous Mike Brown’s predecessor so aptly put it: > [@](#): > > Joe Allbaugh, explaining his view of FEMA’s role: “Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level. We must restore the predominant role of State and local response to most disasters.” ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963/20 "2005-09-11T02:23:21Z")
Sure, he’s learned that when you set up a “freedom walk” to commemorate 9/11, and celebrate our freedoms, you have to be _very careful_ about who you let take part: [Register for the Freedom Walk](https://www.penfed.org/freedomwalk/register.asp) > [@](#): > > The Freedom Walk is free and open to anyone who registers. Registration closes at 10 a.m. on Friday, Sept. 9, 2005. There will be no on-site registrations the day of the event. > > Walkers are asked to begin checking in at 7 a.m. on Sunday, Sept. 11, 2005. The first 1,000 to arrive for screening at the Pentagon on Sept. 11, will receive the official America Supports You campaign lapel pin. > > After you submit your registration, you will receive a receipt with a registration number. Please print out this receipt and bring it with you to the Pentagon South Parking to check-in before the event. You MUST have your registration number to check-in! [Tight Constraints on Pentagon’s Freedom Walk](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/08/AR2005090802140_pf.html) > [@](#): > > The march, sponsored by the Department of Defense, will wend its way from the Pentagon to the Mall along a route that has not been specified but will be lined with four-foot-high snow fencing to keep it closed and “sterile,” said Allison Barber, deputy assistant secretary of defense. > … > What’s unusual for an event on the Mall is the combination of fences, required preregistration and the threat of arrest. [The Freedom Walk Website](http://www.asyfreedomwalk.com/) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sept-11-2001-4-years-later-has-dubya-learned-anything/320963.md?page=2)