Sept. 11th 4th plane

Then the box cutters issue is bogus.

If the crew carries keys, a couple of hijackers could pick an easy target and take the key.

Do they still carry keys?

geez, I hope not.

But I didn’t know they did before. Maybe I read that into the article…

Oops - sorry, been away from the thread a few days. Anyhoo –

That’s a very good question and likely we’ll never know for sure.

However, lack of facts has never interferred with rampant speculation before, so why should it now? I will give my best shot, with supporting evidence, and folks can feel free to hack away at it. There are a couple of scenarios I can think of

  1. Hijackers break into cockpit, come up behind pilots (who, given the small size of cockpits, will have little or no room to manuver), cut their throats or otherwise kill them, drag them out of the seats, and take over. Breaking into the cockpit in the old days was relatively easy - the doors were thin, and if you could get keys from the rest of the flight crew you wouldn’t even have to break it down. It might not have been locked, even. Or they could wait until a crew member exited the cockpit to go to the bathroom or whatever.

  2. Hijackers break into cockpit and threaten to kill the pilots if they don’t turn over the controls. This is sort of dubious because you need specialized training to land a big plane, but it’s not beyond the bounds of reason that hijackers could be pilots. This would only work if the hijackers convinced the pilots that more lives were likely to be saved by the surrender of the legitimate pilots than by their resistance. That would be a tough sell, but it is a possible scenario.

  3. Start killing people. One of the pilots comes out of the cockpit thinking he can deal with the situation, maybe by use of the fire axe commonly kept in the cockpit (after all, the hijackers are armed with knives, an axe is a bigger weapon). The hijackers then overpower the armed pilot and kill the other. Perhaps, as the first pilot exits the cockpit it provides them an opening to go into the cockpit.

It is even possible all three of the above took place on one plane or another.

I have spoken to a captain for Southwest Airlines in person since 9/11 (he’s a local at the general aviation airport I’m based at), and to a couple other airline pilots.

The cockpit doors have been very much redesigned. They are MUCH stronger and much more secure - you can not break into them with muscle power alone, that’s for sure.

As I understand the current system (and this is second hand) they do not use keys. Entry is obtained through an electronic lock and uses a code that is changed periodically. Entering the code from outside the cockpit alerts the pilots someone is out there seeking entry. Even if someone other than the flight crew obtained the code, or is using a knowledgable crew member as a hostage/door opener, there is a definite time delay between the entry of that code and when the door actually unlocks during which the pilot(s) can override the code and deny access from inside the cockpit. This system would allow flight crew to go to the aid of injured/ill pilots during a flight, but would also permit the pilot(s) to barricade themselves in a little fortress up front should that need arise.