# September 11th Flight 93 Memorial: The Crescent of Embrace. Let’s Roll (It Over) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621 "2005-09-14T17:03:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/1 "2005-09-14T17:03:31Z")
Subtitled: Operation Crusade Turned On It’s Head Last week, the winning design for the Flight 93 Memorial in Shanksville, PA was announced. Dubbed the [Crescent of Embrace](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05251/567702.stm) – the site will include an arc of red maple trees and 40 wind chimes for each of the victims of the 9/11 flight. I’ll be the first to concede some people’s feathers tend to get a tad bit ruffled when you combine symbolism with the tragic events 4 years ago.[ul][li]Sometimes we see things that were [never intentionally there](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=121276).Other times, we begin to disagree when overt or subliminal political messages [have wormed their way](http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050911-18273500-bc-us-wtcmuseum.xml) into a memorial site.[/ul] Reasonable people can always agree to disagree, but I’m beginning to get a strong impression that [news outlets](http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/magazine/daily/12637586.htm), [conservative editorial writers](http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_2726705.shtml) and [conspiracy theorists](http://www.zombietime.com/flight_93_memorial_project/) are on to something that isn’t going to go away. [/li] Frankly, I don’t give a ‘flying’ fuck if CAIR spokesman Rabiah Ahmed likes the design or not. True, he’s correct when he states, “Muslims died too (and) Islam, as a religion itself, was hijacked on 9/11." But the four twisted Muslims who went down on Flight 93 that day aren’t getting a wind chime - And won’t end up with symbol - whether inadvertent or not - of their twisted beliefs enshrined on that field. Call the opponents of the approved Murdoch design jingoistic, xenophobic nut jobs if you must – I’m sure they’ve been called a whole lot worse – by a whole lot better. It’s time the Dept. of Interior rejects this design – and tell the selection comittee to select from one of the other 1,010 proposals. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/2 "2005-09-14T17:09:48Z")
I disagree. I, for one, am getting tired of surrending to idiots. Also, anything [Tom Tancredo](http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_3026655) is against, I am likely to be for on general principles. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/3 "2005-09-14T17:14:41Z")
I’ll take that to mean you’d like to see an illegal alien welcome center built on the site 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/4 "2005-09-14T17:18:23Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > I’ll take that to mean you’d like to see an illegal alien welcome center built on the site 😃 Yes, handing out driver’s licenses and Medicaid cards. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/5 "2005-09-14T17:23:22Z")
_It’s a shape._ A number of the victim’s families seem to like, so if the thought of a red semicircle bugs you that much just close your eyes and think of the [Christian Coalition](http://www.cc.org/) or something. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/6 "2005-09-14T17:25:40Z")
The OP’s first link required registration and the second yielded nothing except a myriad of pop-ups. So that leaves me with the conspiracy theorist. So are the number of existing wind chimes including the hijackers in the casualty total? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/7 "2005-09-14T17:25:54Z")
Did you know the state flag of South Carolina [has a crescent on it](http://www.50states.com/flag/scflag.htm)? Guess they didn’t get the memo! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/8 "2005-09-14T17:29:58Z")
By now, I’m inclined to think that we should have no memorials for any of this stuff anymore. Put a plaque on a building, or a big rectangular rock with names carved in it. Every goddamn survivor, relative and well-wisher thinks that they should have some sort of input on what the memorial looks like. Or what the new building looks like, what the garden looks like, what the museum looks like. It’s been 4 fucking years and we haven’t broken ground on a new tower in NYC. Everybody is hand wringing and arguing that one design is stupid, the next design isn’t appreciateive enough, the museum won’t be PC enough or is too PC. The entire Empire State Building was built in just over a year, these SOBs can’t even stick one shovel in the ground after 4. I’ve heard so much crybabying about this process that I am actually ashamed that I donated money to the Sept 11th fund, because some of these uppity jackasses may have benefitted from it. Everyone involved, just shut your fucking pie holes, stop trying to memorialize everyone, and let’s get on with our lives. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/9 "2005-09-14T17:31:44Z")
An ARC of RED male trees. A Red Crescent. You know, symbol of islam and all that? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/10 "2005-09-14T17:35:54Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > So are the number of existing wind chimes including the hijackers in the casualty total? No. Seven crew, 37 passengers, 4 hijackers, 40 chimes. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/11 "2005-09-14T17:41:22Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > An ARC of RED male trees. > A Red Crescent. > > You know, symbol of islam and all that? Or, the logo of the Christian Coalition of America. Or, just a red semicircle. Or, my favorite response to this nonsense, from [here](http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/006801.html): > [@](#): > > Draw a line that bisects the crescent, one that runs parallel to the points of the crescent, then stick a propeller at the widest spot in the resulting figure, and you have a beanie. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/12 "2005-09-14T17:59:10Z")
I thought it kinda like an impact crater… ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/13 "2005-09-14T18:00:41Z")
…kinda looked like… ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/14 "2005-09-14T18:27:56Z")
I think it looks good. You’ll never make art of any power if nobody objects to it. A lot of the families like it. The Dept. of Interior likes it. I like it. Shut the hell up and let’s get this thing built. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/15 "2005-09-14T18:34:54Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > _It’s a shape._ Shit, this is like a stupid version of that “cross” at the Trade Center. It’s not just a shape, it’s a really simple shape! > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Every goddamn survivor, relative and well-wisher thinks that they should have some sort of input on what the memorial looks like. Or what the new building looks like, what the garden looks like, what the museum looks like. It’s been 4 fucking years and we haven’t broken ground on a new tower in NYC. Everybody is hand wringing and arguing that one design is stupid, the next design isn’t appreciateive enough, the museum won’t be PC enough or is too PC. The entire Empire State Building was built in just over a year, these SOBs can’t even stick one shovel in the ground after 4. And by this point, you know whatever gets built won’t satisfy anybody. Well, save for a few politicians. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/16 "2005-09-14T18:40:40Z")
> [@](#): > > An ARC of RED male trees. > A Red Crescent. > > You know, symbol of islam and all that? It’s not a symbol of Islam, it was a symbol of the Ottoman empire, and besides, it was usually used in the form of a green or white crescent, not red. The Red Crescent exists only as a counterpart to the Red Cross, i.e. a humanitarian organization. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/17 "2005-09-14T18:46:56Z")
> [@](#): > > A green or white crescent, not red… Red was chosen to reasons: (1) To keep the commies happy (2) The Heinz’ Ketchup foundation donated a nice chunk of the funding ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/18 "2005-09-14T19:30:34Z")
The leaves won’t be red year round will they? IANABotanist. If I read the article correctly, the cresent shape is what the land does naturally right now. Well, it used to be a strip mine. Hey. that Hollywood Bowl is nothing but a bunch of crescents. Hollywood bastards, they hate America. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/19 "2005-09-14T19:52:56Z")
Er, sorry. I know about the green and white, (Trees are green!) but I was trying to point out the part that some people would be upset about, (Red of blood?) and pointing out that the crescent is a symbol of Islam. While it is true it comes from the Ottoman empire, it is associated directly enough that the equivalent of the Red Cross is the Red Crescent. Clearly, this symbolism was… well, not seen by the designers, or possibly anyone short of those who also see the devil in the smoke from the World Trade, but that’s clearly the part that upsets them. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621/20 "2005-09-14T19:56:54Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Clearly, this symbolism was… well, not seen by the designers, or possibly anyone short of those who also see the devil in the smoke from the World Trade, but that’s clearly the part that upsets them. So, like the swastika, is the crescent no longer to be used at all? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-11th-flight-93-memorial-the-crescent-of-embrace-let-s-roll-it-over/321621.md?page=2)