# September 26 - The First Obama-McCain Debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357 "2008-09-26T16:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/461 "2008-09-27T05:04:27Z")
All in all I thought it was a pretty good debate. I’m glad I didn’t have that instant poll thing, and actually part of me feels like I shouldn’t have participated in this thread (real time) either. I found both of them worth listening to on their own merits, such that I could make my own judgment. For Biden/Palin, though, I’ll be breaking out the popcorn. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/462 "2008-09-27T05:05:49Z")
McCain did better than I thought he would, but in dissing ethanol he lost the farmers. This is a close election, and many farmers vote, and they tend to vote republican. Missouri, Iowa, Indiana and Wisconsin are all states in play and this hurts him there. I wanted Obama to hit harder, but I am not sure that would have been helpful in winning the people who he needs to win. I did not see anything that would shake the Obama faithful, and I did see much that could ease the minds of those on the fence. ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/463 "2008-09-27T05:20:05Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > "We can’t bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don’t go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m’shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. **So I tied an onion to my belt. Which was the style at the time.** Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you’d say. Now where was I… oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn’t get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones… " I don’t know what it is, but I _cannot_ stop giggling over this! ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/464 "2008-09-27T05:23:03Z")
I thought it was pretty much a draw. McCain may have slowed the bleeding he’s been suffering over the past few days. However, this is one McCain needed to win handily, on his purported best subject, and he didn’t do it. Having failed to make up any lost ground, he now hands the baton to Palin for the next leg. McCain’s in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/465 "2008-09-27T05:27:01Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > That was it. Thanks. Man, that one really sucked. I can barely believe it. That was absolutely unbearable. There was a really awkward paws afterwards. It was the polar opposite of humor. It wasn’t exactly a Kodiak moment. Meanwhile in the SDMB Pun Patrol F117, high above chicago, Lt Elucidator is being given a target… ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/466 "2008-09-27T05:27:12Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > I thought it was pretty much a draw. McCain may have slowed the bleeding he’s been suffering over the past few days. However, this is one McCain needed to win handily, on his purported best subject, and he didn’t do it. > > Having failed to make up any lost ground, he now hands the baton to Palin for the next leg. McCain’s in trouble. I agree mostly. Obama won on points but it is hilarious how some liberal sites are spinning this already. Blowout? not even close. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/467 "2008-09-27T05:27:52Z")
> [@xanthous](#): > > I don’t know what it is, but I _cannot_ stop giggling over this! It is a quote of that great philosopher of the Too Old to be President crowd, Abraham Simpson. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/468 "2008-09-27T05:29:16Z")
> [@gravitycrash](#): > > I agree mostly. Obama won on points but it is hilarious how some liberal sites are spinning this already. Blowout? not even close. And how are the conservative sites spinning it? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/469 "2008-09-27T05:38:34Z")
> [@gravitycrash](#): > > I agree mostly. Obama won on points but it is hilarious how some liberal sites are spinning this already. Blowout? not even close. Well, it didn’t actually HAVE to be a blowout to be disastrous for McCain. This was supposed to be his bailiwick, his area of expertise, his sphere of influence…foreign policy! And it was a draw at best. Not a good performance for McCain. And next Thursday pits Palin against Biden. I almost feel sorry for her already. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/470 "2008-09-27T05:40:09Z")
> [@Auntbeast](#): > > Am I the only one that noticed that it was Barack and Michelle who crossed the stage to shake the opponents hands? Maybe I’m old fashioned, but it seemed like the right thing to do, and the wrong thing for John and Cindy to stand there and wait for them. > > Although, in retrospect, it strikes me that Barak had to go to John and that might be seen as a sign of weakness in Obama. > > Also, Obama got to Lehrer first to shake his hand. Manners anyone? You and I were, as the saying goes, “raised right.” And I think that many of the “undecideds” are of our generation. The kids may not think that symbolism is important, but those who will make a difference in this election know the difference between “classy” and “jerkish.” Obama is NOTHING if not classy, and classy is what we want in a president. We’ve had QUITE ENOUGH of oafish and stuck up, thankyouverymuch. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/471 "2008-09-27T05:41:22Z")
> [@C3](#): > > And how are the conservative sites spinning it? Generally as an obvious and strong (though not necessarily overwhelming) McCain victory, of course. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/472 "2008-09-27T05:43:18Z")
In a [previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10221346&postcount=18) I had put it like this - > [@](#): > > [McCain]has to be able to be quick witted and lively so that he isn’t perceived as doddering and grumpy. He needs to keep distancing himself from Bush while satisfying the core. He does that and he wins as much as he can. > > Obama for his part needs to avoid his "uh"s and give clear definitive strong answers with two or three points max. No complex treatises on the greys. He needs to show that he can be in charge and decisive (without arrogance) and he needs to be “relatable” at the same time. He has to represent change while reassuring that his change isn’t all that scary big of a change. All while keeping the message going that McCain-Palin is just Bush and then some. He does that and he wins as much as he can… > > My guess, McCain’s team will declare he won, Obama’s team will say he won Well, I think that each won as much as they could. McCain was lively enough and did a good job at staying on a message of distancing himself from Bush while satisfying his core. Obama minimized his "uh"s, gave clear definitive answers (loved his “I have a bracelet too” comment), showed that he could be in charge and relatable and that his change wasn’t so scary. Both sides will declare victory and, in a way, both will be right. Polls will be uneffected by the debates although they will reflect the fall-out from McCain’s grandstanding for a few days to come. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/473 "2008-09-27T05:44:07Z")
What do you suppose the odds of them coming through the other debates without McCain sounding as condescending, and Obama not sounding like a kid stammering his way through his first debate club meet? As with most debates, both candidates gave disappointingly few concrete, concise answers (especially on the economy). I don’t know why I still expect them to, but… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/474 "2008-09-27T05:49:00Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > You and I were, as the saying goes, “raised right.” And I think that many of the “undecideds” are of our generation. The kids may not think that symbolism is important, but those who will make a difference in this election know the difference between “classy” and “jerkish.” Obama is NOTHING if not classy, and classy is what we want in a president. We’ve had QUITE ENOUGH of oafish and stuck up, thankyouverymuch. :mad: I think the difference in demeanors might actually redound to Obama’s favor with seniors. On Fox, Frank Luntz had a panel of undecided voters who he was gauging for their responses (the majority of whom were saying better things about Obama than McCain), and one of the things a couple of the older people mentioned was that Obama had called McCain “John,” throughout, while McCain never called Obama “Barack” or really even acknowledged him with eye contact. A small thing, maybe, but something that apparently bothered them, and something I do think that people of a certain generation will notice. Basic courtesy means something to them, and they saw Obama being a nice, polite young man and McCain being surly in return. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/475 "2008-09-27T05:50:00Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > What do you suppose the odds of them coming through the other debates without McCain sounding as condescending, and **Obama not sounding like a kid stammering his way through his first debate club meet?** wow; i must have been watching some other debate… 'cause i didn’t see this part of it at all (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/476 "2008-09-27T05:50:31Z")
> [@xanthous](#): > > I don’t know what it is, but I _cannot_ stop giggling over this! Me too! Call me crazy, but I thought Obama was a clear winner in this one. Interesting how people’s perceptions differ. McCain looked like he was on the defensive throughout, but especially on foreign policy. Obama would list issues or strategies or facts in that enumerated style of his, and McCain would respond with stuff like “But everyone knows I’m no Ms. Congeniality…I have years of reaching across the alse!” or “I told Reagan that Lebanon was bad idea, and I was right!” Okay John, that was 45 years ago or whatever. What are you doing now and what are you really going to do in the future? His refusal to look at Obama or even address him by name made him look petulant and passive aggressive. It seemed as if he went out of his way to speak as if his opponent was not present, and it just looked bad. What I observed was that the more condescending McCain was, the more Obama seemed to crank up the nice guy stuff. I’m wondering if this was intentional. Being an Obama supporter, I know that I’m biased. But I think on both style and substance, Obama won. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/477 "2008-09-27T05:51:30Z")
And FWIW the early [post-debate polls](http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/the_post_debate_polls.html) give Obama the nod fairly handily. FWIW. But call it, as I did, a draw, in that each accomplished their goals. Right now in particular that’s a bigger deal for Obama than for McCain. There is a fairly large number of people who are a bit disgusted with McCain right now; they just need to feel satisfied and not scared by Obama and they’re his. His performance will satisfy them. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/478 "2008-09-27T05:51:50Z")
Debates are all about perception, not about issues, or who had a better handle on the facts, or who got in more jabs. None of those things matter in and of themselves. What matters is that undecided voters see in the candidates something they can support. In 2000, Dubya was an incoherent mess in terms of actual facts in the debates, but people liked his affected “honest Joe” persona. In that political climate, it resonated with them more that Gore’s command of facts but inconsistent on-camera personality. Independents may have seen in Obama that he has far more substance in his ideas and command of issues than he has been accused of having. Some independents have been worrying that Obama’s inexperience is too much of a liability. I suspect much of Obama’s performance will assuage those doubts. McCain’s frequent “Senator Obama doesn’t seems to understand” to them will have seemed repetitive, condescending, and obviously not true: Obama clearly did understand what he was talking about. Only the most ludicrously partisan hack saw a lack of understanding in Obama’s responses. It was also obvious that McCain was going overboard in misrepresenting and misconstruing Obama’s positions. Devout repubs who don’t care about facts will undoubtedly say McCain scored points, since Obama spent a lot of time rebutting McCain’s falsehoods about his positions. That sort of dirty pool plays well to the devout, but to independents, I suspect not so well. McCain was too obviously exaggerating or flat out distorting Obama’s actual statements. In the end, I think Obama did a good job showing that he is not, in fact, a mere celebrity, an empty suit. In fact, he’s a skilled politican who knows what he’s talking about. That is obvious, and I think a very important achievement to get people who want to support him but are nervous about it on his side. On the other hand, McCain showed a lot of shrewdness and was deft in getting in jabs (mostly cheap) in at Obama. Cheap or not, they hurt in that Obama had to spend so much time answering them. It reminds me of how creationists score points against legit scientists by spewing so much crap that the scientists are entangled trying to get it all sorted out. It’s dishonest, but effective at tying up your debate opponent. McCain used it effectively if dishonorably. I still think most independents won’t be swayed by that. McCain’s smirking condescension didn’t come across in an appealing way. More importantly, however, McCain came across as intelligent and in command of his ideas. There was no sign of wackiness or Abe Simpson-like babbling (well, mostly not). Independents who may have been worried that McCain was starting to crack were undoubtedly reassured. He is absolutely a competent candidate (if one ignores his absurd campaigning blunders this week and in picking Palin.) It is honestly refreshing to see that the candidates are both such highly informed, articulate people. McCain is far, far above Bush in debate skill, and a match for Obama or probably anyone. My guess is that the polls will not show much change after this debate. Perhaps slightly more independents will start saying they’re for Obama would be my best guess, since I think he showed he can handle himself well, and since I think McCain’s style was abrasive and sanctimonious. Pundits will say the person who won is the candidate who they already want to vote for anyway, so that’s never of any use. The question is, as always, in which candidate did people see someone they can vote for? I think Obama did better with independents. McCain however did better in making his base happy than Obama did. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/479 "2008-09-27T05:58:15Z")
Did anyone else notice McCain getting visibly angry when Obama would nail him on things McCain had said personally in the past? Like the the bit about the prime minister of Spain: it looked like McCain was grinding his teeth (or perhaps maybe viciously biting his tongue). ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/480 "2008-09-27T06:01:02Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Did anyone else notice McCain getting visibly angry when Obama would nail him on things McCain had said personally in the past? Like the the bit about the prime minister of Spain: it looked like McCain was grinding his teeth (or perhaps maybe viciously biting his tongue). Yes, at one point I thought I saw him getting red. He looked away at that point, found someone in the crowd and smiled and nodded. He did control his temper better than I had thought he would, considering some of the things I read leading up to the debate. He also got a bit flustered (I thought) when they were talking about sitting down to talk to rogue leaders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357.md?page=25)