# September 26 - The First Obama-McCain Debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357 "2008-09-26T16:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/601 "2008-09-27T17:34:34Z")
McCain’s impotent posturing on Iraq “victory” probably lost him some marginal points. The Iraqis are handing us our hat, showing us the door, hello, you must be going. Whatever is going to happen in Iraq pretty much already has happened, and if this isn’t victory, well, it is what it is. Whether Obama has a 16-month timeline, or fervently supports an ongoing presence doesn’t mean shit to a tree, and even less to the Iraqis. They’ve already made up their minds. It isn’t our decision to make, and Johnny Mac seems unable to grasp this simple, defining fact. The pro-Iran party that doesn’t much like American troops has cut a deal with the pro-Iran party that really hates American troops. If that’s “victory”, well, whoopty fucka doo! ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/602 "2008-09-27T17:35:21Z")
I felt it was mostly a draw. Nobody outright embarrassed themselves, which is what it would take to sway the coverage (which is all that really counts). I guess a draw helps McCain, being behind. I did come away thinking The McCain Presidency may not be quite as bad as The McCain Campaign. I hope Obama wins, but McCain will still be a step up from Bush. He seems sincere about the spending problems at least. The blinking never bothered me, but the sneering, laughing and over-talking did. Very rude of McCain. And both of them could have done a lot better at addressing the other candidate. Jim Lehrer won. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/603 "2008-09-27T17:53:26Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > That struck me as well. The young military personnel he referred to don’t have all the intel and wisdom that a President does. Their support or opposition should be duly noted, not relied upon for making decisions. I noticed that my son’s worldview was definitely skewed while he was serving in Iraq, for example. Speaking as someone on active duty right now, (and due to be reassigned and probably flown to Iraq soon) I have to agree. Thats why I liked it when Obama stressed the need to use the military wisely. (This is an issue thats come up in the past with me here in the SDMB…the fact that the military takes its orders from the people we elect. So blaming soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines for an unpopular war is unfair…but thats not the subject here and I don’t want to belabor that point) In my experience any dignitary visiting troops in the field will only see troops that have been briefed on what kinds of answers to give. They very well weren’t going to let MCCain speak to Pvt. Joe snuffy who thinks the whole thing is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/604 "2008-09-27T18:01:26Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I bet in the next debate McCain will spend so much time gazing into Obama’s eyes At least he won’t see K … G… B … [QUOTE=Jolly Roger] In my experience any dignitary visiting troops in the field will only see troops that have been briefed on what kinds of answers to give. They very well weren’t going to let MCCain speak to Pvt. Joe snuffy who thinks the whole thing is bullshit. [/QUOTE] Exactly. Seems to me that Pvt. Joe Snuffy (or in my case Lance Cpl. Billy Jim Bob) is getting a bit tired of being used. Lance Cpl. Billy Jim Bob still plans on voting McCain, albeit grudgingly. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/605 "2008-09-27T18:03:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You ignored the last part to then reach for the straw point, Obama is not exclusively talking about the US president meeting with him. Sheeze, this is getting fucking annoying. He may not be talking about the President meeting with some nut leader without pre-conditions NOW, I’ve said as much. But he DID say that in the primaries. Twice, I think. So, he either misspoke then or has changed his opinion. This thing will be kept alive until Obama says it’s one or the other. The fact is he DID say it. Hillary repeatedly slapped him with it. And now McCain will. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/606 "2008-09-27T18:03:34Z")
Now that they’ve discussed foreign policy and the economy…what will they find to talk about in the next 2 debates? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/607 "2008-09-27T18:07:14Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > It’s weird. My mother in law called and that was what she commented on. I didn’t even notice, but it seems like this meme has legs. I bet in the next debate McCain will spend so much time gazing into Obama’s eyes there’ll be rumors that he has a schoolboy crush. Which could have some interesting consequences, if the analysis by some observers is correct, that McCain needs to look away from his opponent in order to keep his temper from boiling over. Given that the two debates to come will focus on areas where McCain isn’t as strong, and where we can expect Obama to hit harder and more effectively, I think it’s quite possible that, if McCain does take notice of the not-looking-at-Obama criticism and try to make eye contact, he could wind up losing control of his rage. He certainly looked on the edge of that at times in last night’s debate. Did anyone else notice how, when Obama was landing punches, McCain’s feet were moving, almost dancing sometimes? As if he had to physically dissipate the anger in order to keep it in check. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/608 "2008-09-27T18:07:50Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Now that they’ve discussed foreign policy and the economy…what will they find to talk about in the next 2 debates? Turn ons, turn offs, college football. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/609 "2008-09-27T18:10:50Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > But we’re voting on the McCain of _right now._ And right now, he ain’t doing jack for the country. Has missed almost every Senate vote in six months, hasn’t attended meetings on Afghanistan, hasn’t been a “maverick” in any measureable way. I don’t know what election you plan to vote in, but the only McCain available to me is this current model. Oh, please. You want to ignore everything except the last two years? Now, I can see why you might want to, but that’s not how it works. McCain has a great record. Records matter more than words. Wanting to ignore that is pathetic. He has proven himself to go against his own party more than any other Senator. He took counter positions on the Surge and immigration very recently. And Obama has missed plenty of votes. Keep in mind that he has been in the Senate only a short time. he had to show up for the first year or so just to see what the place looked like and figure out how things worked. He’s been in campaign mode almost half the time he’s been in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/610 "2008-09-27T18:10:53Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > At least he won’t see K … G… B … > Exactly. Seems to me that Pvt. Joe Snuffy (or in my case Lance Cpl. Billy Jim Bob) is getting a bit tired of being used. Lance Cpl. Billy Jim Bob still plans on voting McCain, albeit grudgingly. Well, the military almost universally goes republican for some strange reason. Its probably perhaps that the republicans do spend more on the armed forces than the dems as far as I know. (correct me if I’m wrong in that, I have no cites on it) If Obama wins one thing he may want to do is work on that perception and make the dems look more military friendly. Overall, I think Obama did better in the debate because he laid his ideas and what he wants to do. I didn’t hear anything like that from JM. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/611 "2008-09-27T18:13:30Z")
Solid performance from both, with the biggest deal probably being that Obama held his own on topics that were generally agreed to be McCain’s strong suit. McCain unquestionably talks about these matters with ease and experience, but there were some occasions where I thought he got bogged down trying to make or create a talking point, and the economy portion of the debate was not very good for him. Obama often sounds like he’s struggling to get his thoughts out there but for the most part he was clear and didn’t talk in circles. He started off stiff but eventually settled into the debate and did well. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/612 "2008-09-27T18:15:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sheeze, this is getting fucking annoying. He may not be talking about the President meeting with some nut leader without pre-conditions NOW, I’ve said as much. But he DID say that in the primaries. Twice, I think. So, he either misspoke then or has changed his opinion. This thing will be kept alive until Obama says it’s one or the other. The fact is he DID say it. Hillary repeatedly slapped him with it. And now McCain will. Meh, you are like Johna Goldberg saying that the focus groups and polls that gave Obama the overwhelming victory are all wrong because he say so. One can not misspeak when the information available before the debate said otherwise, and it is clear Obama was not referring to the president exclusively. In this subject you are only suffering from the typical “time line avoidance” syndrome that I have seen in many right wingers. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/613 "2008-09-27T18:24:50Z")
Duplicate post. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/614 "2008-09-27T18:24:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sheeze, this is getting fucking annoying. He may not be talking about the President meeting with some nut leader without pre-conditions NOW, I’ve said as much. But he DID say that in the primaries. Twice, I think. So, he either misspoke then or has changed his opinion. This thing will be kept alive until Obama says it’s one or the other. The fact is he DID say it. Hillary repeatedly slapped him with it. And now McCain will. Again, I’d appreciate a direct quote from Obama saying what you claim he says; your paraphrase is not convincing. Ideally you’ll link to the full context, but if you’ll simply provide the quote from Obama that you’re paraphrasing, that’ll be enough for me to Google it. You may well be right, but McCain is a damn liar in this campaign season, and I’m not going to take him at his word about anything Obama said. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/615 "2008-09-27T18:42:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again, I’d appreciate a direct quote from Obama saying what you claim he says; your paraphrase is not convincing. Ideally you’ll link to the full context, but if you’ll simply provide the quote from Obama that you’re paraphrasing, that’ll be enough for me to Google it. You may well be right, but McCain is a damn liar in this campaign season, and I’m not going to take him at his word about anything Obama said. > > Daniel Here you go. Here is a video of him answering a good and very direct question: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSFSUbMWenU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSFSUbMWenU) (sorry, my link tool isn’t working.) An article from Politico from back in February: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSFSUbMWenU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSFSUbMWenU) > [@](#): > > Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) said at tonight’s CNN debate in Austin that he would be willing to meet immediately with Cuba’s new leader, Raul Castro. But Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) said she would not. > > In fact, Obama broadly extended his policy of being willing to meet with dictators without preconditions, while Clinton holds the more traditional position that a U.S. president should hold such negotiations only after extensive groundwork has been done. > > “Not just in Cuba, but I think this principle applies generally,” Obama said. “I recall what John F. Kennedy once said: We should never negotiate out of fear, but we should never fear to negotiate. > > “And this moment, this opportunity when Fidel Castro has finally stepped down, I think is one that we should try to take advantage of.” > > Clinton said: “I agree absolutely that we should be willing to have diplomatic negotiations and processes with anyone. … But there has been this difference between us over when and whether the president should offer a meeting without preconditions with those with whom we do not have diplomatic relations. And it should be part of a process. But I don’t think it should be offered in the beginning, because I think that undermines the capacity for us to actually take the measure of someone like Raul Castro.” And then there’s The Nation: [http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?pid=217102](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?pid=217102) > [@](#): > > I can see the ad now: Kim Jong Il, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Fidel Castro, Bashar al-Assad, and Hugo Chavez all strolling into the White House, and a grinning Barack Obama greeting them with a friendly “Welcome, boys; what do you want to talk about?” > If Obama gets close to the Democratic presidential nomination, pro-Hillary Clinton forces could air such an ad. If he wins the nomination, the Republicans could hammer him with such a spot. > And the junior senator from Illinois will not have much of a defense. Just to make it easy, here is both the question and the answer. Question In 1982, Anwar Sadat traveled to Israel, a trip that resulted in a peace agreement that has lasted ever since. In the spirit of that type of bold leadership,\*\* would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration\*\*, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries? (bolding mine) Obama’s Answer **I would.** And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them – which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration – is ridiculous. Now, Ronald Reagan and Democratic presidents like JFK constantly spoke to Soviet Union at a time when Ronald Reagan called them an evil empire. And the reason is because they understood that we may not trust them and they may pose an extraordinary danger to this country, but we had the obligation to find areas where we can potentially move forward. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/616 "2008-09-27T18:45:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Meh, you are like Johna Goldberg saying that the focus groups and polls that gave Obama the overwhelming victory are all wrong because he say so. > > One can not misspeak when the information available before the debate said otherwise, and it is clear Obama was not referring to the president exclusively. In this subject you are only suffering from the typical “time line avoidance” syndrome that I have seen in many right wingers. There you go again. Same old Gigo… :rolleyes: You may want to check my last post. Or not. Or check it out and tie yourself into more of a knot. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/617 "2008-09-27T18:48:45Z")
Here’s more: [http://rawstory.com/news/2008/debate\_0221.html](http://rawstory.com/news/2008/debate_0221.html) > [@](#): > > As the Democratic CNN/Univision debate kicked off Thursday night, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) faced off over Cuba, with Obama reiterating his position that America “has to talk with its enemies,” with Clinton holding to an earlier position that no president should meet with Cuba’s new leader unless conditions are met. > > “I would not meet with him until change has happened,” Clinton said, with regard to Cuba’s new leader, Raul Castro. “I believe we should have full diplomatic engagement where appropriate but a presidential visit should… not be offered unless” conditions are met. > > Obama said he’d be willing to meet with the new leader in Cuba, presumably Castro’s brother, Raul Castro.\*\* “I would meet without preconditions, though senator Clinton is right there has to be preparation.”\*\* (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/618 "2008-09-27T18:50:23Z")
Thank you, **magellan**. Given that, and absent any additional information, I agree that it appears Obama has changed his position. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/619 "2008-09-27T18:53:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Thank you, **magellan**. Given that, and absent any additional information, I agree that it appears Obama has changed his position. > > Daniel You’re welcome. And thank you for being so reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/620 "2008-09-27T18:55:22Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > There you go again. Same old Gigo… :rolleyes: > > You may want to check my last post. Or not. Or check it out and tie yourself into more of a knot. Enjoy. You seem to miss that I do take the time line into account, I was not making my point on Obama changing his position, in fact I took that into account when I still say that your line of attack is pathetic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357.md?page=32)