# September 26 - The First Obama-McCain Debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357 "2008-09-26T16:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/681 "2008-09-28T15:03:36Z")
I don’t know if anybody has mentioned yet either, but I though Obama had a major gaffe in regards to the ear mark spending, first pinning ti all on lobbyists, and then having to backtrack and make an exception for himself: > [@](#): > > And he’s also right that oftentimes lobbyists and special interests are the ones that are introducing these kinds of requests… although that wasn’t the case with me. So he had to own up to personally being responsible for a billion dollars in earmarks. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/682 "2008-09-28T16:17:15Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > They’ve got the ears down. They do need to capture his halting, roundabout style. I’d do something with his “Change” mantra. Like a skit where he just arbitrarily wanted to change everything, even widely accepted programs like Social Security or 401k plans. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/683 "2008-09-28T16:31:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > F%#@!!! I just wrote a long (and, of course, brilliant) response, but my internet connection screwed up and then I was logged out. And this is after the batteries in my wireless keyboard EXPLODED a couple hours ago. Aaarrrggghhhhh. I have to run now, but I promise more brilliance later tonight or tomorrow. I’ll just say now that I think your position makes perfect sense. If you don’t agree with his positions now, you shouldn’t vote for him. > > Unless, of course, you love your country and want to save it from the nascent jaws of socialism.:dubious: Let’s save it from one thing at a time. My first concern is to save it from the power brokers who don’t give two shits about 95% of the people living here including a lot of good sincere conservatives. Real solutions after that will take time and continued effort on all our parts. Both parties need some serious house cleaning. The Democrats aren’t the solution. They just happen to be the better choice at this particular moment in history. IMO. There’s little doubt in my mind that McCain and Palin are a continuation of a dangerous power structure that we desperately need to stand up to. Not all Republicans belong to it, and certainly some Democrats do. I think the dangers of any socialistic tendencies from Obama pale in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/684 "2008-09-28T16:31:31Z")
I’ve thought about this and came to the conclusion that they don’t usually mimic candidates any more than they mimic senators; they wait until they become presidents. Sarah Palin was an unusual exception. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/685 "2008-09-28T17:08:56Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > As I said in another thread, you might find [this column](http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/McCain_a_Bush_clone_These_numbers_dispute_that.html) in the Philadelphia Inquirer interesting. I did. It dispels all that “McCain voted 90% of the time with Bush” folderol (which McCain advanced himself at one point to stoke up his conservative cred): Uh Huh. Listed in the opinion column. That figure alone may not give all the information we need but it’s not inaccurate. The next step is to see where they are alike and where they differ. Given McCain’s shift theses last few months, his stance on Iraq, his campaign staff full of lobbyists as he cries POW and Maverick, the clear gimmick of Palin while he says country first, the area where he is most similar to Bush IMO is a complete lack of believability and ability to earn my trust. That’s enough similarity for me. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/686 "2008-09-28T17:17:19Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > I’ve thought about this and came to the conclusion that they don’t usually mimic candidates any more than they mimic senators; they wait until they become presidents. Sarah Palin was an unusual exception. But an irresistible one, with Tina Fey in their contact lists. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/687 "2008-09-28T17:26:35Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > And judging from what I’ve seen of Obama, he simply is more comfortable as the steady, calm one, not as some sort of attacking firebrand. In a debate, I think it makes sense for him to stick to his strengths. I think that’s a good point. Still, I think has to show he is ready and willing to fight back while remaining steady and calm. While watching the debates I kept thinking Look him in the eye and tell him he’s distorting the facts and he’s wrong. Steady and calm but do it. I haven’t had time to read the whole thread but another point. Obama talked about the wrong decision to go into Iraq. A valid point. When Mccain said, the next president won’t be dealing with whether we should have gone he was right on. Obama needed to to get there first. He let McCain talk about how great the surge has worked without challenging it. What political gains have we made which was an important part of the purpose of the surge. The very fact that the advances we have made are fragile brings up and important question the next president has to deal with. Is there an end in sight? How long are we willing to spend American lives and billions of dollars there , with no real end in sight and no clear achievement of our goals? Are we willing to call a reduced number of American deaths victory? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/688 "2008-09-28T17:43:33Z")
BTW, [electoral\_vote.com](http://www.electoral-vote.com/) is still giving 286 EVs for Obama, 252 for McCain – same as on Friday afternoon. It might take another week, I suppose, to know if either candidate got a bump from the debates. ---
**Author:** ![JHE1967](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JHE1967](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHE1967)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/689 "2008-09-28T17:50:02Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > He let McCain talk about how great the surge has worked without challenging it. What political gains have we made which was an important part of the purpose of the surge. The very fact that the advances we have made are fragile brings up and important question the next president has to deal with. Is there an end in sight? How long are we willing to spend American lives and billions of dollars there , with no real end in sight and no clear achievement of our goals? > > Are we willing to call a reduced number of American deaths victory? An excellent point. I was thinking the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/690 "2008-09-28T17:52:08Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Alleviate suffering in problem areas and you won’t have terrorists. That’s the only fail-proof method. Actually, what they’re angry about [is not poverty, but pride.](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2007/a_matter_of_pride_4529) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/691 "2008-09-28T17:53:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > BTW, [electoral\_vote.com](http://www.electoral-vote.com/) is still giving 286 EVs for Obama, 252 for McCain – same as on Friday afternoon. It might take another week, I suppose, to know if either candidate got a bump from the debates. The [dailykos tracking poll](http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/28/75413/3350/471/612782) shows a nice bump for Obama Saturday. +5 Thursday +7 Friday +9 Saturday ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/692 "2008-09-28T17:53:16Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I call it a draw. Evokes image of McCain with his arms and legs chopped off . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/693 "2008-09-28T18:02:32Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > Not me, it reminds me of that creepy sing-song that Reagan used to do when he was trying to lull people into complacency. I remember . . . He would start his speech with the whole Oval Office in the field of view, and then the camera would slowly, slowly pan in until only Reagan’s talking head was visible. Mondo creepshow. (He never played Svengali in a movie, did he?) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/694 "2008-09-28T18:21:31Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > The [dailykos tracking poll](http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/28/75413/3350/471/612782) shows a nice bump for Obama Saturday. > > +5 Thursday > +7 Friday > +9 Saturday In the first daily tracking pllls to reflect debate reaction, Obama is [has extended his national lead](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html). Obama +8 in the Daily Gallup and +6 in the Daily Rasmussen. A [USA Today/Gallup poll](http://www.gallup.com/poll/110779/Debate-Watchers-Give-Obama-Edge-Over-McCain.aspx) today has debate watchers saying that Obama won the debate 46%-34%. It does not look like McCain’s suspension stunt has helped him. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/695 "2008-09-28T18:30:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, what they’re angry about [is not poverty, but pride.](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2007/a_matter_of_pride_4529) While for the most part I agree with that article, I still think it’s amazing how much pride money can buy, and I hate this argument, because it can turned on its head and used as an excuse _not_ to use money in the area. While personal deprivation may not be the driving need of many of the terrorists, I think seeing the personal need of their fellow countrymen is. Outrage on behalf of others is not limited to the US. But it is true that the primary causes of terrorism are not the poverty so much as we happen to be pushing certain buttons without any real intent or even understanding on our parts of doing so. I honestly think the neo-cons had no idea that invading Iraq would foster ill will toward the US in the middle east. And perhaps had we handled it much, much better, it might not have. But I’m having trouble seeing how. Even if we had maintained law and order better, how could we have withdrawn our troops quickly without just handing the reins over to another strong man? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/696 "2008-09-28T18:32:41Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > And I thought the point of three-inch shorter North Koreans was obvious: They live under such a repressive regime that they are now demonstrably behind their closest neighbors by the most fundamental of measures. Those of you trying to spin it as a senile non sequitir just sound silly. It wasn’t a major point anyway, but it wasn’t that hard to grasp. It was a nonsequitur in that the average North Korean’s lot in life is only marginally relevant to U.S.-NK relations; worse yet, an **opportunistic** nonsequitur cynically calculated to appeal to the emotions of those who still view such things in Cold War moralistic terms. I say “cynically” in the forlorn hope that McCain himself is not one of that number. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/697 "2008-09-28T18:35:53Z")
_ **Just as shout out to** _ **Oy!** You mentioned WHYY in Phliadelphia. I grew up in northern Delaware so I gies we have the same stomping gorunds. If you ever make it to newark (DE not _ugh_ NJ) check out the Deer Park Teavern if its still there. I haven’t been there for years, but it was a favorite college hangout of mine!😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/698 "2008-09-28T18:37:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I say “cynically” in the forlorn hope that McCain himself is not one of that number. This is a meme that I think needs to be put to rest, and not just in relation to John McCain. Every politician in this country is an adult, ostensibly in charge of their own administration or campaign. To suppose that somehow John McCain is being kept in a perfect bubble of non-news and being fed only the information that his evil [del]captors[/del] aides and advisors see fit for him to know, and somehow retains a sort of mythical reputation as a straight-shooter and an honest man despite the fact that his campaign has been lying through its collective teeth since the first time the polls showed him too close to Obama for comfort, is kind of naive. So we’re faced with the possibility that McCain is either fine with lying and being a right bastard to his opponent, or that he’s an incompetent who’s letting his handlers control the campaign. Neither way looks good. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/699 "2008-09-28T18:56:04Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > _ **Just as shout out to** _ **Oy!** > > You mentioned WHYY in Phliadelphia. I grew up in northern Delaware so I gies we have the same stomping gorunds. If you ever make it to newark (DE not _ugh_ NJ) check out the Deer Park Teavern if its still there. I haven’t been there for years, but it was a favorite college hangout of mine!😃 Unfortunately, I have intermittent vertigo and don’t ever travel beyond about 15 miles from my home in Trenton except for an emergency (which has yet to arise since the vertigo began - but will when I have to testify in my SDI appeal court appearance). So while Delaware is close on a global scale, it might as well be California to me. Same thing with Philadelphia. Hell, even Princeton, NJ. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357/700 "2008-09-28T18:56:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > When McCain made the comment that Pakistan was a “failed state” I could not comment right away why it was dumb, the reason was that using the 12 point index from Foreign Policy this year Pakistan is number 9 in the failed state column,\*\* Iraq is number 5\*\*. He was referring to Pakistan as it was [when Musharraf took power in 1999.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Pakistan#Third_democratic_era_.281988-1999.29) Which still, I’m sure, wouldn’t compare as a [failed state](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state) with Iraq now or at any time since the invasion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/september-26-the-first-obama-mccain-debate/465357.md?page=36)