# Sequels that made you hate the original. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 22, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197 "2009-12-22T15:32:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/1 "2009-12-22T15:32:49Z")
Have you ever watched or read the sequel to something that you liked and then went back to the original and found that you no longer liked it? I enjoyed the first Transformers movie and was looking forward to the second one. Reviews started coming in about how bad it was, but the first wasn’t reviewed too highly either. I figured it would be about the same. I hated the movie. I considered walking out, but I was with a group of friends. About a month ago I put the first one in the Blu-ray player and realized I now hated it too. The Matrix movies did the same for me. I didn’t think the first one was anything special, but it wasn’t bad. I went with a group of friends to see the second one. Other than the “to be continued” ending, we all enjoyed it and later discussed how it appeared Neo was possibly still inside the Matrix, just in another layer. When the third one came out, we went to see it to find out what was going on. Was there layers to the Matrix? No, Neo is magic. I can still tolerate the first movie, but now I can’t stand the second one because of the third one. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/2 "2009-12-22T15:58:26Z")
At the risk of being flame-bait, I’d offer Star Trek: The Next Generation as being vastly superior to Star Trek: The Original Series. It’s hard to go back to some of those old episodes like “Spock’s Brain” after TNG episodes such as the two-parter where Picard was a Borg. I’d be happy if many Sci-Fi movies had the same production values and scripts as many TNG episodes. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/3 "2009-12-22T16:04:14Z")
That’s a loaded and unfair comparison: picking the acknowledged worst episode of the original show and comparing it to one of the better episodes of the remake. Why not compare “Family” with “The City on the Edge of Forever”? Ultimately, both shows had about the same number of great episodes. But ST:TNG had more episodes in total, so the original show had a better percentage. I agree with the OP about **The Matrix** , although I didn’t care all that much for the original in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/4 "2009-12-22T16:16:11Z")
Star Wars always stood on it’s own as the classic Sci-Fi space film and I always enjoyed it. However, I did attempt to watch the films in order I, II, III, IV, V, VI. After watching the first three and their choreographed lightsaber battles mixed with f/x it becomes a real downer to see Darth Vader and Alec Guiness poke at eachother with their lightsabers like a couple of geriatrics with their canes. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/5 "2009-12-22T16:19:04Z")
The Matrix sequels didn’t ruin the first one for me, though they did make me get a little ill in the stomach when I think about how cool they should have been and how it should have been our new Star Wars(don’t even bring up those prequel thingies). I think the Phantom Menace made me both hate and appreciate the originals. I like all three of the original Star Wars movies, even Return of the Jedi. The new ones made me realize just how incompetant Lucas is and how lucky he was to have created the first one in 1977. The two sequels in 1980 and 1983 must have succeeded despite his involvement. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/6 "2009-12-22T19:29:43Z")
I don’t think a bad sequel has ever made me hate the original. It’s often upsetting, true, because of the squandered potential (i.e. “the X-Men trilogy could have been an all-time great, except now Bryan Singer won’t ever be able to finish it off the way it should have”). But a shitty sequel also makes me appreciate the original _more_, because it usually shows off the many ways the original itself could have gone wrong. It clarifies what made the original work. For example: “The Matrix.” After the first movie came out, everyone was gaga over the effects and the element of philosophy that seemed to give the story some depth. So when the Wachowskis went off to make the sequels, they figured, “everybody loved the philosophy stuff and the CGI - let’s just do a lot more of that.” And thus we end up with the bloated, computer gamey messes that were “Reloaded” and “Revolutions.” It turns out that what made “The Matrix” work so well was that it balanced that philosophizing and cool CGI effects with a compelling, original story set in an interesting environment. The first film did a great job of complimenting the pretentious “deeper meaning” stuff with great popcorn movie moments and a sharp sense of humor. The sequels did not - and part of the reason was that people, including the Wachowskis, were somewhat blinded to what made the first film work in the wake of its ridiculous success. Only after the release of the sequels did it become clear why “The Matrix” is destined to become a classic, while “Reloaded” and “Revolutions” will be forever relegated to the discount heap. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/7 "2009-12-22T22:52:48Z")
The Ocean’s sequels. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/8 "2009-12-22T22:57:32Z")
I can’t say a sequel ever made me hate the original, but _Mostly Harmless_ sucked much of the fun out of the earlier volumes of the _Hitchhiker’s Guide_ series. The first three books had a lot of darkness in them, but in the fifth one it finally overwhelmed what little humor there was. (The fourth forgot to be funny, but at least it didn’t make me want to slit my wrists.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/9 "2009-12-22T23:07:58Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I think the Phantom Menace made me both hate and appreciate the originals. I like all three of the original Star Wars movies, even Return of the Jedi. The new ones made me realize just how incompetant Lucas is and how lucky he was to have created the first one in 1977. The two sequels in 1980 and 1983 must have succeeded despite his involvement. I still like the original three Star Wars movies, but the backstory created in the prequels generates even more gaping plot holes and illogical events in the first series than there were originally. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/10 "2009-12-22T23:08:31Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > At the risk of being flame-bait, I’d offer Star Trek: The Next Generation as being vastly superior to Star Trek: The Original Series. It’s hard to go back to some of those old episodes like “Spock’s Brain” after TNG episodes such as the two-parter where Picard was a Borg. I’d be happy if many Sci-Fi movies had the same production values and scripts as many TNG episodes. Me too. Well, I’m not a huge sci fi nut or anything, but I started watching Star Trek this year with original series. And now I think I prefer TNG. It’s so good! And it does seem surprisingly high quality in terms of effects. I mean, Original Series is hilarious for camp but TNG isn’t campy at all. It’s just GOOD, period. I haven’t found myself missing the original at all. Now we’re both going to SDMB hell, aren’t we? ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/11 "2009-12-22T23:26:30Z")
I grew up with TNG and only recently have rented out the original Star Trek series on Blu-Ray. I must say I love them! My favourite used to be DS9 but the interplay between Kirk, Spock and McCoy is fantastic. Any episode where the three feature heavily is a pleasure to behold. I vote Star Wars. Perhaps age changed my tastes but I loved the original trilogy. I read a lot of the books and was fascinated by the extended universe. Since the disappointing prequels I have no desire to watch them again. Perhaps Timothy Zhan should have wrote them instead. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/12 "2009-12-23T00:11:15Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Now we’re both going to SDMB hell, aren’t we? Nah, you get a pass. Here’s the thing: I didn’t get allowed to regularly watch _Star Trek_ when it first came on, and so I missed most of it. I was very disappointed when the series was cancelled, and although I kept hearing rumors that Paramount and Roddenberry were negotiating to bring it back, they kept breaking my heart by not actually doing it. The first motion picture being released didn’t do a thing to heal me. On the contrary, it raised hopes in my heart that _finally_ they’d get their acts together and put JT Kirk and the gang back in my living room where they belonged. Those hopes were false, as it turns out. I kept waiting, and waiting, and waiting. And they kept putting out motion picture after motion picture after motion picture. I continued to pretend to myself that the REAL Enterprise and crew were coming back. So when _ST:TNG_ was announced, I refused to hear it, or to acknowledge that it actually exists (funny thing is, I _like_ Patrick Stewart. He makes a fine Deputy Director of the CIA. He’s just not starship captain material, except maybe as a special guest star). And then DeForrest Kelly passed away. No Dr. McCoy? How can they bring back _Star Trek_ without Bones McCoy? _Then_ James Doohan kicked the bucket. Bones **and** Scotty? They’re not supposed to die! And they never returned the real _Star Trek_ to the small screen, like they were supposed to! And now they never can. That’s it, Roddenberry. You’re dead to me. Do you hear me? DEAD! So, any Dopers who wish to be fans of that “placeholder” show with the robot who thought he was a real boy, go right ahead. In unrelated news, when is Koufax going to be back on the mound? They told me he was retiring because his pitching arm was “tired.” Well, it’s been forty-three years. How the hell much rest does he need? Why yes, as a matter of fact it is all about me and what I want. Who else would it be about? ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/13 "2009-12-23T00:13:28Z")
I thought Rocky was a great movie. Maybe Rocky II was a logical conclusion to the original. After that it was Sly Stallone in search of past glory and more money by mugging for the camera. I fell the same way about First Blood: A pretty good movie that should never have had a sequel. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/14 "2009-12-23T00:27:59Z")
Mad Max was a perfectly okay B movie. Mad Max 2 was over the top, but it’s had a lasting effect on the post-apocalyptic genre, and pop culture. Mad Max 3 however, makes me really not want to watch the first two. Now there’s a Mad Max 4 on the way. I don’t know what to think. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/15 "2009-12-23T00:40:46Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > [TNG] does seem surprisingly high quality in terms of effects. As a Trekkie whose gateway was TNG, I disagree strongly. The Next Generation is as badly dated as the original Star Trek in its own way, and I wince when watching a lot of the older episodes. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/16 "2009-12-23T02:50:09Z")
Aliens 3 made it hard for me to watch Aliens again…just by virtue of the bad taste in my mouth from the way it made every single thing that happened in the second movie unimportant and pointless. I have not watched Aliens 3 again since I first saw it in the theater, but I think I have watched Aliens fewer times than I would have if there had never been an Aliens 3. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/17 "2009-12-23T03:27:50Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Aliens 3 made it hard for me to watch Aliens again…just by virtue of the bad taste in my mouth from the way it made every single thing that happened in the second movie unimportant and pointless. I have not watched Aliens 3 again since I first saw it in the theater, but I think I have watched Aliens fewer times than I would have if there had never been an Aliens 3. I like the explanation someone gave that Aliens 3 was just a nightmare Ripley had while in cryo. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/18 "2009-12-23T03:41:41Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I like the explanation someone gave that Aliens 3 was just a nightmare Ripley had while in cryo. Works for me. It was certainly incoherent and senseless enough to be a nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/19 "2009-12-23T04:14:05Z")
Both of the “second” Star Trek movies - “The Wrath of Khan” and “First Contact” - were worlds better than their respective firsts - “The Motion Picture” and “Generations”. _Trivia: Although the characters Kirk and Khan traded quite a bit of baiting dialog, they had no face-to-face time at all in TWOK._ ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197/20 "2009-12-23T04:25:41Z")
The Star Wars prequels ruined the “good” ones for me, and I was a big Wars fan back in the day. Part of the appeal to me of the originals is that the world felt so much bigger than the movies themselves. I loved all the little mysteries and backstories hinted at. The prequels had tons of (bland, awful) answers to those little mysteries, and now I can’t unknow them. When I watch the originals, I’m constantly reminded of the sad prequels and the sense of wonder is blown. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-made-you-hate-the-original/522197.md?page=2)