# Sequels that ruin the original movie **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400 "2017-01-05T17:21:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/21 "2017-01-05T21:52:07Z")
How about the, “Oh shit, this is a franchise! Let’s add more crap!” phenomenon? _Pitch Black_ was a perfectly serviceable horror flick, but the horrendously complicated backstory created for _The Chronicles of Riddick_ would ruin it if you thought about it too hard. Likewise, _The Matrix_ universe was overly complicated for the sequels. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/22 "2017-01-05T21:52:28Z")
A large part of what made the original Ringworld so great was the mystery: Here’s this artifact, clearly made, and nobody has the damndest clue by whom, how, or why. But in a universe with Protector, it’s obvious: It was made by Protectors, and you’d have to be brain-dead to not jump straight to that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/23 "2017-01-05T22:01:17Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I was going to mention everything after Aliens. (In fact, I’ve only actually watched the first 2 after Aliens. I have no interest in even trying any of the other franchise films.) Okay I’m confused. The first movie is called Alien. The second is Aliens. Then there is Alien 3, Alien: Resurrection, and three more movies with another coming out this year. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/24 "2017-01-05T22:10:37Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > Okay I’m confused. The first movie is called Alien. The second is Aliens. Then there is Alien 3, Alien: Resurrection, and three more movies with another coming out this year. I mean I like Alien and Aliens, have seen but hate Alien 3 and Alien Ressurrection (and have all 4 in a DVD box set that I got dirt cheap during the Great Online DVD Price War of the late 1990s-early2000s), and have never seen any of the “verses” movies or Prometheus, and have absolutely no desire to ever do so. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/25 "2017-01-05T22:22:19Z")
**The Matrix** was a gem of a movie, quirky, imaginative and new. Matrix 2 and 3 were progressively awful and made me begin to resent the first movie which occasioned them. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/26 "2017-01-05T22:22:50Z")
I can claim victory in this thread with **Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2**. Not only did it destroy the premise of the original by making it “only a movie” within its universe, it forged ahead with a nonsensical “but spooky stuff anyway!” story. Supernatural stuff happens, just because. Couple that mess with crappy acting, crappy dialogue, cookie-cutter characters, and you have more than a crappy sequel; you have one of the worst movies ever made. **BW2** was so awful, one movie review site I used to love added a new basement to their rating system just for it. Previously, the worst was four bombs, described something like, “so godawful that it ruptured the very fabric of space-time with the force of its mediocrity.” The new worst rating was a mushroom cloud, with the description, “Proof that Jesus died in vain.” The review started with, “If you strapped a running camera to the back of a hyperactive cat with diarrhea and set it loose, the resulting footage would be better than **Blair Witch 2**.” I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/27 "2017-01-06T00:47:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A large part of what made the original Ringworld so great was the mystery: Here’s this artifact, clearly made, and nobody has the damndest clue by whom, how, or why. But in a universe with Protector, it’s obvious: It was made by Protectors, and you’d have to be brain-dead to not jump straight to that conclusion. Okay, I’ll buy that. To my mind, an answer is a good thing. The first book was the “mystery” story, and the second et seq are the “answer” and “complications” stories. I think, if the mystery element had been continued, it would have become cloying. (Instead, the “let’s move mountains with a reel of monomolecular superconducting wire and a stepping disk” plots became cloying. Ya can’t win!) ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/28 "2017-01-06T03:17:31Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > Okay I’m confused. The first movie is called Alien. The second is Aliens. Then there is Alien 3, Alien: Resurrection, and three more movies with another coming out this year. It could be worse, consider the three movies: _First Blood_ _Rambo: First Blood Part II_ _Rambo 3_ Whatever happened to _Rambo 2: First Blood Part III_? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/29 "2017-01-06T03:21:41Z")
I could have maybe accepted an answer, but it had to be an answer worthy of the mystery. This is like Blue standing next to the door with a pawprint on the doorknob, the leash, and Steve’s shoes, and Steve needing a half-hour to figure out what Blue wants. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/30 "2017-01-06T03:26:37Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Well, how about a sequel that ruins a sequel? Aliens 3 immediately kills off the cute little girl who was rescued in Aliens. And the aliens survive. So, basically, in Aliens, an entire marine squad gets wiped out, they nuke the site from orbit and still manage not to be sure, and no one lives happily ever after. This is the only answer I’ve come up with. Even if a sequel is bad, the originals still exist. But Aliens 3 obviates every single thing that happens in Aliens in the first few minutes of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/31 "2017-01-06T03:29:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A large part of what made the original Ringworld so great was the mystery: Here’s this artifact, clearly made, and nobody has the damndest clue by whom, how, or why. But in a universe with Protector, it’s obvious: It was made by Protectors, and you’d have to be brain-dead to not jump straight to that conclusion. Except that the Protectors would _never, ever_ build something like that. > [@](#): > > The Pak world has never been free from war at any time in its history. Naturally not, with every protector acting to expand and protect his blood line at the expense of all the others. Knowledge keeps getting lost. **The race can’t cooperate for a minute beyond the point where one protector sees an advantage in betraying the others**. They can’t make any kind of progress because of that continual state of war. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/32 "2017-01-06T03:31:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A large part of what made the original Ringworld so great was the mystery: Here’s this artifact, clearly made, and nobody has the damndest clue by whom, how, or why. But in a universe with Protector, it’s obvious: It was made by Protectors, and you’d have to be brain-dead to not jump straight to that conclusion. Can we throw Clarke’s _Rendevous with Rama_ in here? The first was a great space archaeological mystery with no real answers. The sequels tried to apply answers, and sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/33 "2017-01-06T03:32:03Z")
I liked the second Matrix movie. However, the third one was bad enough to make me wish they had not made any sequels. Terrible. Certainly sours the original to me. Quentin Tarantino felt the same, I know. Iron Man 2 is bad enough to almost made me never look at the original again. However, I thought Iron Man 3 is my favorite Marvel movie so far. Sometimes, things come back around. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I am rather tired of this meme. The prequels were Ok, not awful. By any measure they did well and rated well. > The Directors cut fixed that weird idea. Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are genuinely bad movies, though they do not ruin the originals. The third prequel was OK, but still not acceptable. The Directors cut of Highlander 2 still makes no sense, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/34 "2017-01-06T04:58:25Z")
At the end of “The French Connection” it says that Charnier was never caught. In the sequel Popeye shoots him at the end of the movie. But I haven’t watched the sequel since it came out, so it almost doesn’t exist anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/35 "2017-01-06T05:37:52Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Except that the Protectors would _never, ever_ build something like that. Plus, they’re xenophobic to the point of neurosis. They would NEVER move alien species to Ringworld, they’d just exterminate them. The explanation in the sequel is poor handwaving - the Protectors couldn’t exterminate the species because it would be a giant red flag to Protectors in the area. But the Protectors _wouldn’t care_! But, to the OP, it doesn’t ruin Ringworld - I simply ignore the sequels! 🙂 (But Alien 3 - yep, that ruins 2, if you expect the full series to be taken as presented) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/36 "2017-01-06T09:56:41Z")
A similar thread from awhile back,\* [A love that will never die, until the sequel](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=741755). \*Which was…_only two years ago?!_ Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/37 "2017-01-06T11:40:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Mind a book example, too? The sequels to _Ringworld_ ruin the original, because they firmly establish it as being in the same continuity as _Protector_, and the original makes no sense whatsoever in that continuity. I still like “The Ringworld Engineers” (even though it doesn’t make any sense) more than “Escape From Hell”, Niven & Pournelle’s sequel to “Inferno”. Spoiler alert: Hell is full of ungrateful black people who tried to score freebies after Hurricane Katrina. Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/38 "2017-01-06T11:40:55Z")
Watching _Troll II_ made mre not want to see _Troll_. There’s just no way _Troll_ could avoid being a huge not-as-hilarious disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/39 "2017-01-06T12:24:59Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > A similar thread from awhile back,\* [A love that will never die, until the sequel](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=741755). Sadly, this thread ruins that one. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400/40 "2017-01-06T15:09:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Mind a book example, too? The sequels to _Ringworld_ ruin the original, because they firmly establish it as being in the same continuity as _Protector_, and the original makes no sense whatsoever in that continuity. I don’t see that Protector and Ringworld can’t exist in the same continuity. Sure, scrith and twing are the same thing, but that could be just two independent people inventing/discovering the same material. Maybe the people that (really) built Ringworld reverse engineered the material from a protector ship. If you mean that the sequel “proves” Protectors built RW, then I agree with you. I never believed they did, even the first time I read RWE. Protectors were seen as inhabiting the galactic core. They only rarely ventured out, so them ignoring the Ringworld is understandable. We know they came as far as Earth, but that’s 200 light years away from RW, and they didn’t have FTL drives. The real problem wit RW is that no one would ever build it! It’s postulated that only a species with no other choice would need to build it. Plus, unless you’ve got some self-replicating nano-bot technology constructing it, the thing would take thousands of years to build, maybe tens of thousands. And if you have nano-bot tech (and scrith, and ramjets) you’d just go somewhere else rather than build that undefendable ego project, that blazing neon sign that says “come get us!”. And the problem with later Niven is, when he decides he wants to change continuity, he simply says, “You know all that stuff you believe to be true, that people told you about Slavers/Ringworld/hyperspace monsters/Protectors? The stuff you’ve based you entire understanding of those things on? Well, the people that told you were lying!” That’s hack writing. But I still love Ringworld. It would make a great movie, now that we have CGI good enough. So what if it has no real plot? Neither did Jurassic park. It’s just a fantastical escape story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sequels-that-ruin-the-original-movie/776400.md?page=3)