# Serdar Argic's cousin is a member of the SDMB **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961 "2009-06-25T17:11:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/41 "2009-06-26T16:31:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Gotta concur, I was arguing with the fellow Spluttering incoherently, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/42 "2009-06-26T16:42:10Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Strictly speaking, the mafia’s involvement was, in and of itself, a footnote to the work done by Alper, Slavin, Sonneborn, Schalit and others. Slater’s book, [The Pledge](http://www.amazon.com/Pledge-Leonard-Slater/dp/0595092977) is actually a great read (my apt is a disaster area currently and I can’t find my copy to cite any specifics) Looks interesting. I’ll pick it up, and let you know what I think. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/43 "2009-06-26T17:04:16Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Looks interesting. I’ll pick it up, and let you know what I think. 🙂 It really is an amazing book. And now I’m annoyed… I’ve been building my personal library since I was a young teenager and by this point it’s too big to fit on the book shelves I have, so most of it is boxed up and scattered across two states and three cities. I read _The Pledge_ a decade and a half ago by now since it was given to me as a gift when I became bar mitzvah… I’m hazy on many of the specifics and I’d really like to re-read it now. Grumble grumble feh. Anyways, yah, let me know what you think. Hopefully I’ll have found the sucker by then. Edit: Ahahahahahaha, found my copy… now I just need to spend the next several hours cleaning things up again 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/44 "2009-06-26T17:11:30Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > It really is an amazing book. And now I’m annoyed… I’ve been building my personal library since I was a young teenager and by this point it’s too big to fit on the book shelves I have, so most of it is boxed up and scattered across two states and three cities. I read _The Pledge_ a decade and a half ago by now since it was given to me as a gift when I became bar mitzvah… I’m hazy on many of the specifics and I’d really like to re-read it now. > > Grumble grumble feh. > > Anyways, yah, let me know what you think. Hopefully I’ll have found the sucker by then. Hey I sympathize. I currently have a whole room devoted to library and it is too small, I have books double-parked on all shelves and piles on the floor - and this after I’ve carefully purged the books with the ruthelessness of a devoted Stalinist (and a lot more discrimination). 😃 I can’t find anything. In the next two years I plan on building an addition on my house; my ultimate dream is to build a really nice library with built-in shelves, a little ladder to reach the top shelves, and a skylight … which, should it ever happen, will no doubt prove too small in short order. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/45 "2009-06-26T17:35:36Z")
Yah… I’m going to start my own purge later tonight. Going through things I found way too many old grad school textbooks that I won’t need and old paperbacks which aren’t good for much other than poolside reading. I wonder if any of my local libraries/schools could use them. Meanwhile, an interesting tidbit, but this isn’t the copy I had back then (I have no idea where it is). I got this one in… the late 90’s I think? I feel kinda bad about how battered it is, actually, but lugging it around through the years has taken a toll. It’s irreplaceable, however. It’s not a commercial version and is labeled ‘not for resale’ . The back leaf is marked “This book is a gift presented to you by Air Force House Herzelia Israel” The front has a copy of a letter drafted in Haifa, 1957, by Yaacov Dori to one of my relatives (a major protagonist in the book) > [@](#): > > Dear [-------], > > ``` > In connection with your letter of August 2nd, 1957 I take pleasure in writing you a few words regarding the services rendered by you during the crucial years just prior, and just subsequent to the birth of Israel, when the Armed Forces of Israel were under my command. > > Maintaining transport facilities, from the Western Hemisphere to Israel, for materials consigned both to the Armed Forces of Israel and to the Civilian Population, were in the main your responsibility and I wish to confirm that the flow of these goods was maintained in the best manner possible. > > With kindest regards, > > Yours sincerely, > General Y. Dori > > ``` Which is part of how I know what I know about some bits of Israel’s history. These were the ‘bedtime stories’ I grew up with as a child. Being told the history, first hand, by one of the men who helped create it is something of a benefit 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/46 "2009-06-26T17:56:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Spluttering incoherently, that is. You constantly mistake it when you are too stupid to understand with the incoherence of your opponent. The big mistake anyone makes with you is actually taking you seriously at all. The reason I stopped talking to you in the Battlestar Galactica thread is because I couldn’t believe what an utter imbecile you were in that discussion. You were literally too stupid to understand what I was trying to say. I haven’t seen the thread in question, but after my many interactions with you, I am going to from now on take my chances and assume that in 100% of cases the misunderstanding is your doing. I’m willing to be wrong the 1% of times that you actually do show some logical coherence. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/47 "2009-06-26T18:09:00Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yah… I’m going to start my own purge later tonight. Going through things I found way too many old grad school textbooks that I won’t need and old paperbacks which aren’t good for much other than poolside reading. I wonder if any of my local libraries/schools could use them. > > Meanwhile, an interesting tidbit, but this isn’t the copy I had back then (I have no idea where it is). I got this one in… the late 90’s I think? I feel kinda bad about how battered it is, actually, but lugging it around through the years has taken a toll. It’s irreplaceable, however. It’s not a commercial version and is labeled ‘not for resale’ . The back leaf is marked > > “This book is a gift > presented to you by > Air Force House > Herzelia > Israel” > > The front has a copy of a letter drafted in Haifa, 1957, by Yaacov Dori to one of my relatives (a major protagonist in the book) > > Which is part of how I know what I know about some bits of Israel’s history. These were the ‘bedtime stories’ I grew up with as a child. Being told the history, first hand, by one of the men who helped create it is something of a benefit 😉 Woah, that’s amazing. When I read the book, I’m going to try to guess which is your relation. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/48 "2009-06-26T18:17:16Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > You constantly mistake it when you are too stupid to understand with the incoherence of your opponent. The big mistake anyone makes with you is actually taking you seriously at all. The reason I stopped talking to you in the Battlestar Galactica thread is because I couldn’t believe what an utter imbecile you were in that discussion. You were literally too stupid to understand what I was trying to say. I haven’t seen the thread in question, but after my many interactions with you, I am going to from now on take my chances and assume that in 100% of cases the misunderstanding is your doing. I’m willing to be wrong the 1% of times that you actually do show some logical coherence. Here’s the thread in issue: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11250344#post11250344](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11250344#post11250344) The highlight is our mutual friend **ElvisL1ves** taking extreme offense at my use of the expression “having the wolf by the ears” in reference to the Israel-Palestine situation on the WB. He took this to mean Israelis literally thought Palestinians were _subhuman_, and could not be moved from this POV. So yes, I think you are quite accurate - he’s simply too stupid to understand what is under discussion (or alternatively, deliberately _plays_ being stupid for laughs). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/49 "2009-06-26T18:23:17Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > extreme offense at my use of the expression “having the wolf by the ears” in reference to the Israel-Palestine situation on the WB. He took this to mean Israelis literally thought Palestinians were _subhuman_, and could not be moved from this POV. Not “Israelis”, you. YOU. It was your own analogy. When asked if YOU could consider any other analogy, one that did not portray other humans as animals, YOU could not. Perhaps you ought to go back and reread your own spluttering before you get caught in any more such silly lies. Less schmuck, more mensch, bubbeleh. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/50 "2009-06-26T18:27:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It was your own analogy. It was actually Thomas Jefferson’s analogy. His quote about slavery is actually pretty apropos to the Israeli-Palestinian situation: > [@](#): > > But, as it is, we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/51 "2009-06-26T18:28:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not “Israelis”, you. YOU. It was your own analogy. When asked if YOU could consider any other analogy, one that did not portray other humans as animals, YOU could not. > > Perhaps you ought to go back and reread your own spluttering before you get caught in any more such silly lies. > > Less schmuck, more mensch, bubbeleh. :rolleyes: Dude. 😃 > [@](#): > > Not so fast with the rolleyes, please. You offered it as a metaphor **for the Israeli POV** , and that POV is what I’ve been trying to address and that you, among others, have instead been trying to rationalize. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/52 "2009-06-26T18:31:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Here’s the thread in issue: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11250344#post11250344](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11250344#post11250344) > > The highlight is our mutual friend **ElvisL1ves** taking extreme offense at my use of the expression “having the wolf by the ears” in reference to the Israel-Palestine situation on the WB. He took this to mean Israelis literally thought Palestinians were _subhuman_, and could not be moved from this POV. > > So yes, I think you are quite accurate - he’s simply too stupid to understand what is under discussion (or alternatively, deliberately _plays_ being stupid for laughs). Well done Malthus. I particularly like this line: [QUOTE=Malthus] Perhaps I could grab the bull by the horns. But given how you are crying wolf over the issue … I think you are like the dog in the manger on the subject of metaphores. [/QUOTE] Though I have to say you are the real moran! You mispelled metaphors! ;p ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/53 "2009-06-26T18:33:49Z")
Jefferson was referring to an _institution_, not a people. Makes a difference, doesn’t it? **Malthus** and **FinnAgain** are, as they showed in that thread, self-blinded to the point of being unable to consider Arabs even as fellow human beings. **mswas** has the same problem with homosexuals. And, when that is pointed out to them, the only response either can muster is elementary-school level, as this thread shows. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/54 "2009-06-26T18:38:39Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well done Malthus. I particularly like this line: > > Though I have to say you are the real moran! You mispelled metaphors! ;p Thanks; I’m glad someone liked it. I sorta knew it would be lost on **ElvisL1ves**. Pearls before swine and all that! 😃 As for the typo - I feel remorse in direct proportion to the offense. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/55 "2009-06-26T18:58:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Jefferson was referring to an _institution_, not a people. Makes a difference, doesn’t it? **Malthus** in the other thread wasn’t referring to the Palestinians as a people. He was talking about Israel’s occupation of the West Bank. He said: > [@](#): > > The problem with the [West Bank] is that Israel now has the wolf by the ears. It wasn’t Israel’s fault that it grabbed the wolf in the first place - that’s the end result of a war of aggression against it, you may recall - but now the issue is whether it is right to keep on holding on to that wolf, let it go and suffer the consequences, adopt it as one of the household, or kill it for good. So he’s saying the West Bank is the wolf in the analogy (which he maybe tortured a little bit). Israel is occupying it, and doesn’t really have any good options in dealing with it, is what he’s saying. That doesn’t mean that he believes the Palestinians are animals. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/56 "2009-06-26T19:01:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Jefferson was referring to an _institution_, not a people. Makes a difference, doesn’t it? > > **Malthus** and **FinnAgain** are, as they showed in that thread, self-blinded to the point of being unable to consider Arabs even as fellow human beings. **mswas** has the same problem with homosexuals. And, when that is pointed out to them, the only response either can muster is elementary-school level, as this thread shows. I’d like to see a cite that proves that I have a problem seeing homosexuals as human beings. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/57 "2009-06-26T19:02:25Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Thanks; I’m glad someone liked it. I sorta knew it would be lost on **ElvisL1ves**. Pearls before swine and all that! 😃 Of course it was, that’s not a big surprise. > [@](#): > > As for the typo - I feel remorse in direct proportion to the offense. 😉 Ok, well as long as you’re remorseless. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/58 "2009-06-26T19:07:35Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > **Malthus** in the other thread wasn’t referring to the Palestinians as a people. He was talking about Israel’s occupation of the West Bank. He said: > > So he’s saying the West Bank is the wolf in the analogy (which he maybe tortured a little bit). Israel is occupying it, and doesn’t really have any good options in dealing with it, is what he’s saying. That doesn’t mean that he believes the Palestinians are animals. Good luck with that. 😃 I started down this path, thinking that **ElvisL1ves** was maybe just a little bit misinformed, maybe not familiar with the expression. It took me awhile to realize that **ElvisL1ves** has that particular form of stupidity that makes it apparently impossible for him to back down, having once taken umbrage. In his mind, it cannot be that the offense was not warranted - it _must_ be that I really am “… unable to consider Arabs even as fellow human beings”, as revealed by my choice of expression. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/59 "2009-06-26T19:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing;11283540So he’s saying the West Bank is the wolf in the analogy (which he maybe tortured a little bit). Israel is occupying it, and doesn’t really have any good options in dealing with it, is what he’s saying. That doesn’t mean that he believes the Palestinians are animals.[/QUOTE] Then you should have kept on reading. He makes it quite clear. Not that I’d recommend that to most people, but since you wish to pass judgment, you need to get it right. **mswas** , there are dozens of pages of your posts alone in the various gay marriage threads where you do pretty much that, refusing to acknowledge that any of your rationalizations have any foundation other than that. I would add the term “as you know”, but that’s where the self-blinding problem comes into it. The elementary-school level problem with your responses was already apparent, and you didn’t need to provide additional evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/60 "2009-06-26T19:59:16Z")
I did read the rest of the thread, and I think you’re being oversensitive on the Palestinian’s behalf. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961.md?page=4)