# Serdar Argic's cousin is a member of the SDMB **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961 "2009-06-25T17:11:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/101 "2009-06-28T21:33:11Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You are either honestly confused or have some sort of axe to grind, I’m not sure which. I “nullified” nothing. There is an objective difference to seeking to spread the Gospel by talking to everybody about it, and specifically focusing on Jews with the aim of eliminating Judaism. I am dubious that anyone is seeking to convert Jews for the purpose of eliminating Judaism. There are missionaries in China, Africa, Korea, and everywhere else around the globe trying to convert people. Are they trying to eliminate those cultures too? What is your standard for ‘elimination’. > [@](#): > > If the doctrine was “Buddhists need to abandon their faith and become Christians. Let’s specifically try to convert Buddhists now until there are none left”, that’d be aiming at the destruction of Buddhism. And missionaries in the far east are very likely targetting and tailoring their mission to converting Buddhists. I fail to see how conversion is annihilation when it comes to Jews, but not other cultures. So it is possible that I am confused as you say, or that I have an axe to grind, if it’s the latter then my axe to grind is your use of annihilate/eliminate. > [@](#): > > My beliefs are 100% compatible with religious Judaism, and I’ll trust all the rabbis I’ve spoken to about it over gentiles’ views of what my Judaism should be. Ok, well I have never heard of authentic atheist Judaism. That’s a new one to me. God’s chosen people who do not believe in God. Strange thing that. > [@](#): > > “There’s a difference between Scientologists believing that everybody should be ‘clear’ and offering silly tests on the sidewalk and them deciding that your children’s high school should all be made ‘clear’ and aggressively trying to convert every single student there.” > “No there isn’t.” This doesn’t even make any sense to me. > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: > [ > > [url=[The Edict of Expulsion of the Jews - 1492 Spain](http://www.sephardicstudies.org/decree.html)]Or, ya know, the Alhambra Decree.]([Internet History Sourcebooks Project](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/jews-visigothic1.html)) So we’ve got about a millennium of history _just in Spain_. Really want to see about the rest of Europe? And what about the missionaries in North America forcing people to go to Indian Schools and making them take Christian names? Were they singling them out too? How many groups do they ‘single out’ before it becomes just a generalized mission as opposed to ‘singling out’ certain groups. > [@](#): > > Because Jewish theology has no creed or “principles of faith” and is consistent with any number of beliefs on God including but not limited the view that God is somethign like the “unified field” theory of physics and that Kether is in Malkuth as Malkuth is in Kether. It does not, however, contain the possibility that God is triune and one ‘facet’ of God specifically said that Judaism is over and everybody should convert away from it. Yes, I understand that. Personifying God is the road to idolatry. I tend to agree with that myself. But then if God is impersonal how does a unified field ‘choose’ a people? The Ain Soph Aur is a beautiful sight but it’s not very personal. > [@](#): > > Well, I’d wager that an, ahem, crusade to convert Muslims would be seen as rather offensive. Yes, and would you claim that Muslims were singled out throughout history for conversion by Christianity? > [@](#): > > Likewise, I’d wager that after the Indian Schools that an attempt to destroy what little remains of their religious traditions by aggressively trying to convert them all to Christianity might raise a few hackles. So the Native Americans were singled out also? So would it be fair to say that Jews, Native Americans, Buddhists, Muslims, and Africans have all been, ‘singled out’, by Christianity for conversion? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/102 "2009-06-28T22:01:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Singled out. I am not sure that term means what you think it means. It certainly does not have the meaning that you now want to pretend that it has. > [@mswas](#): > > I am dubious that anyone is seeking to convert Jews for the purpose of eliminating Judaism. That you choose to ignore the stated purpose of the Jews for Jesus–the group actually in question–is simply your decision to ignore reality so that you can pick a fight. (You will probabaly fall back on your bit of equivocation, conflating ethnic and religious Jews, while ignoring the fact that if the religion completely disappears, most likely the ethnic group will lack the cohesion to remain extant.) _::: shrug :::_ ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/103 "2009-06-28T22:14:42Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It certainly does not have the meaning that you now want to pretend that it has. Really? Because I thought it meant taking one person or group and setting them apart and treating them differently from how you treat everyone else. What does it mean to you? > [@](#): > > That you choose to ignore the stated purpose of the Jews for Jesus–the group actually in question–is simply your decision to ignore reality so that you can pick a fight. (You will probabaly fall back on your bit of equivocation, conflating ethnic and religious Jews, while ignoring the fact that if the religion completely disappears, most likely the ethnic group will lack the cohesion to remain extant.) > > _::: shrug :::_ This isn’t even an argument it’s just a personal attack. Come back when you have an argument. The stated purpose of Jews for Jesus is: > [@](#): > > We exist to make the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people worldwide. > **[About Jews for Jesus - Jews for Jesus](https://jewsforjesus.org/about)** > > We bring the message of Jesus the Messiah to Jewish people throughout the world. Find out more about us and the important work we do. So what part of that am I ignoring? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/104 "2009-06-28T22:34:58Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > This isn’t even an argument it’s just a personal attack. Come back when you have an argument. The stated purpose of Jews for Jesus is: > > > [@](#): > > > > We exist to make the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people worldwide. > > [About Jews for Jesus - Jews for Jesus](http://www.jewsforjesus.org/about) > > So what part of that am I ignoring? All the information to which Finn linked, earlier, rather than their publicity blurb as well as the subtext of their own claim to make the messiahship “unavoidable.” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/105 "2009-06-28T22:43:26Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > [About Jews for Jesus - Jews for Jesus](http://www.jewsforjesus.org/about) > > So what part of that am I ignoring? That Jews for Jesus exists to specifically convert Jews (and engages in deceptive practices to do so), and that as such, there are Jews who have a pretty big problem with it. Are you having trouble grasping the concept? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/106 "2009-06-29T00:15:00Z")
For those following along, I’ll re-cite/quote some of the issues. JfJ was founded, and is run and informed by the ideals of evangelical Christians. It seems rather simple to figure out that evangelical Christians are not Jews. The scumfuck group’s founder, “Moishe Rosen”, is [actually named Martin Meyer Rosen](http://en.allexperts.com/e/m/mo/moishe_rosen.htm). Wonder why he changed his name, eh? He also went to Northeastern Bible College and became a Christian missionary. He was ordained as a Baptist Minister. He earned a Doctor of Divinity Degree from Western Conservative Baptist Seminary. Their membership is, likewise, largely made up of evangelical Christians, as their group is dedicated to spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. JfJ aims at tricking Jews into believing that religious Christianity is compatible with religious Judaism. They do not, as some of their apologists claim, concern themselves only with culture. They have gone out of their way to [subvert the Jewish High Holy days](http://www.jewsforjesus.org/judaica/roshhashanah) and, perhaps even more disgustingly,[the Jewish coming of age ceremonies](http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/havurah/mm96_04/barmitzvah), the Bar/Bat Mizvah for which they admit, in one breath, that, the _religious ceremony_ is a signal that the child is a Jew and that he’s joining the community of the Jewish faith as someone who is no longer a child, but that… > [@](#): > > Bar mitzvah can be a sign to unbelievers that Jesus is the Messiah. Family and friends may hesitate to visit your congregation, but few will want to miss the bar mitzvah of a loved one. This creates a wonderful opportunity for unbelieving family and friends to hear the gospel in a Jewish context. Because it is a core life-cycle event, most will be willing to attend—and with a great deal of curiosity! Then, of course, going on to admit that they aim at subverting the religious ritual in part “because bar mitzvah celebrates the Torah”, ya know, that ‘cultural’ document. And, of course, they [used to have up](http://www.torahatlanta.com/NEW%20WEBSITE/Articles/The%20Real%20Jews%20for%20Jesus.html) but have now [disappeared](http://www.jfjonline.org/witness/faq_dating.htm) a page on “dating” whose contents contained the advice that, quite contrary to respecting Judaism (or Jews for that matter) that a father should forbid his daughter from marrying a Jew due to their status as “unbelievers”. > [@](#): > > “Nevertheless, her inclination in this matter of marriage to an unbeliever should raise some questions as to the nature and strength of her commitment. It is your duty as Christian parents to counsel her regarding what Scripture teaches on this subject. Let her know that you cannot condone such a marriage.” This from the guys who claim that Jewish High Holy Days and coming of age ceremonies are totally compatible with Christianity… except you need to keep your daughter from marrying them due to the unresolvable gulf between the two faiths. And, of course, in one of JfJ’s own press releases, its executive director makes the mistake of admitting that, naw, they’re not “messianic Jews”, [they’re Christians](http://jfjonline.org/pub/other/press_releases/020819_catholic.htm). > [@](#): > > “I guess that sets us and Jesus in direct contradiction to the document,” continues Brickner. "This is an attack on Jews for Jesus and other Christian groups who hold to the uniqueness of Christ. You can also note the full text of this mission statement which, gee whiz, they truncated. [Here is the link](http://www.missionaries.org/World_Religion/Judaism/). Notice anything? There’s a sentence before the whole unavoidable Jesus thing. > [@](#): > > We are an international, evangelical Christian mission agency with the mission statement, We exist to make the Messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people world-wide. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/107 "2009-06-29T00:24:17Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > That Jews for Jesus exists to specifically convert Jews (and engages in deceptive practices to do so), and that as such, there are Jews who have a pretty big problem with it. Are you having trouble grasping the concept? Nope not at all. I understand it just fine. But that’s not the same as ‘annihilation’. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/108 "2009-06-29T00:25:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > All the information to which Finn linked, earlier, rather than their publicity blurb as well as the subtext of their own claim to make the messiahship “unavoidable.” I read his posts, but I still fail to see how it equates to ‘annihilation’. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/109 "2009-06-29T00:31:24Z")
1. There is currently a Jewish religion 2. If all the Jews become Evangelical Christians, there will no longer be a Jewish religion 3. Thus, Judaism will have been annihilated 4. “Jews for Jesus” aims at converting all Jews to Christianity. 5. Therefore, JfJ aims at the annihilation of Judaism via conversion. QED. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/110 "2009-06-29T00:31:38Z")
I hate how Jews and Christians alike are at odds like this. Christians should respect Jews for what they are, which is the original chosen people of God. If Jews want to convert to Christianity willingly, great. If not, who cares. Same goes for conversions from any one religion to another. The hateful diatribes are just silly. I happen to believe that God is a forgiving God, and whichever side ends up getting it right, be it Judaism, Christianity or Islam, that there’s a self-correcting measure in place for all peoples of faith to rectify them and grant them salvation. CHristianity has been particularly horrible to Jews over the millenia (cuz you know, they killed Christ, man! As if it wasn’t preordained!). This whole thread is just stupid, particularly the OP. And now it’s been completely derailed, too. I thought we were talking about Israel and Palestine, not cults within organized religions. **Finn** is OK in my book. For a Jew. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/111 "2009-06-29T00:32:00Z")
> **[Moishe Rosen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moishe_Rosen)** > > Martin Rosen (April 12, 1932 – May 19, 2010) was an American minister and the founder and former Executive Director of Jews for Jesus, a Christian missionary organization that focuses on evangelism to Jews. > Rosen was born in Kansas City, Missouri, the son of Ben Rosen and Rose Baker. He was raised in Denver, Colorado. According to Rosen, his mother's parents were "Reform Jews from Austria" and his paternal grandfather was an Orthodox Jew. Although his father regularly attended an Orthodox synago... So according to this, he is a Reform Jew who converted to Christianity and then wanted to synthesize the two. Yeah and? I am failing to see the dishonesty here. That’s exactly what I thought Jews for Jesus was. He wants to bring the gospel to the Jews, and he was born to a ‘Ben Rosen’ and ‘Rose Baker’. Ben Rosen sounds like a pretty ethnically Jewish name to me. How many non-Jewish Rosens do you know? I mean I admit it could happen but every Rosen I’ve ever met was a Jew. It claims his Mother’s side were reform Jews from Austria. So he converted to become a Baptist and then wanted to bring the gospel to the Jews. So he formed an organization of Jewish conversos. That is exactly what I thought it was, so where is the deception here? You think that Christianity and Judaism are incompatible, so you are saying that anyone who believes they are not is actively trying to deceive people rather than having an honest theological disagreement with you? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/112 "2009-06-29T00:34:49Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > 1. There is currently a Jewish religion > 2. If all the Jews become Evangelical Christians, there will no longer be a Jewish religion > 3. Thus, Judaism will have been annihilated > 4. “Jews for Jesus” aims at converting all Jews to Christianity. > 5. Therefore, JfJ aims at the annihilation of Judaism via conversion. > > QED. Ok, so? The entire point of Christianity was to bring a a Judaic message to the gentiles. So they want to unify Jews and Christians under one chosen people under the banner of Jesus as the messiah. But if Jew is an ethnicity then it’s not exactly going to annihilate Jews, it will just remove the separation between Judaism and Christianity. If Judaism requires being a people apart from everyone else and not sharing the covenant then yes, it will annihilate Judaism. It’s sort of like marriage, don’t think of it as losing a daughter, think of it as gaining a son. 😉 But as I said theologically, I am more inclined to the way you described it, I am not a Christian because I am not sold on Jesus’ messiahship either, I’m just saying. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/113 "2009-06-29T01:33:12Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > [Moishe Rosen - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moishe_Rosen) > > So according to this, he is a Reform Jew who converted to Christianity and then wanted to synthesize the two. Yeah and? I am failing to see the dishonesty here. That’s exactly what I thought Jews for Jesus was. He wants to bring the gospel to the Jews, and he was born to a ‘Ben Rosen’ and ‘Rose Baker’. Ben Rosen sounds like a pretty ethnically Jewish name to me. How many non-Jewish Rosens do you know? I mean I admit it could happen but every Rosen I’ve ever met was a Jew. It claims his Mother’s side were reform Jews from Austria. > > So he converted to become a Baptist and then wanted to bring the gospel to the Jews. So he formed an organization of Jewish conversos. That is exactly what I thought it was, so where is the deception here? > > You think that Christianity and Judaism are incompatible, so you are saying that anyone who believes they are not is actively trying to deceive people rather than having an honest theological disagreement with you? I happen to think that not only are the two religions inexorably intertwined, but that one will eventually define the other and make them one. There’s no need for coercion, brutality or anything in order for this to happen. In fact, I’d be happy if a group of Muslims that believe in God as I do (which is a cosmic traveller, mover and shaker, and setter of many tables) figure it out. In my mind, all peoples are forgiven from erroneousness in their beliefs, from ignorance to faith in “the wrong sect”, provided that they live decent lives and don’t committ crimes against humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/114 "2009-06-29T01:43:44Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Dennis Prager is right. He doesn’t care for “Jews for Jesus”\* but he’s more concerned by “Jews for Nothing”. Now wait a minute, you’re picking on one of my favorite groups, celebrated in that famous cartoon showing a march of religious celebrants holding banners and objects bearing the word “Nothing”, while one observer anxiously asks another, “Is Nothing sacred?” My favorite image of Jews for Jesus is in the movie _Airplane_, when Robert Stack is striding determinedly through the airport, brushing aside annoying proselytizers right and left: “Jews for Jesus?” WHACK! > [@mswas](#): > > I’m not going to fall into the trap of trying to factually dispute what you are saying because I am certain you have meticulously researched this and am willing to buy that you are citing your sources well because you always do But…b-but…_dammit_…☹ ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/115 "2009-06-29T01:43:59Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I thought we were talking about Israel and Palestine, not cults within organized religions. This is true, and the tangent bores me so I’m not going to continue it. Let’s get back on topic. I have to go cash my weekly Mossad check now, but by the time I get back someone better have found out how I’m part of a vast global conspiracy to post on message boards. That or that I’m secretly Israeli pretending to be posting from upstate New York. I’m not picky. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/116 "2009-06-29T02:22:25Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I happen to think that not only are the two religions inexorably intertwined, but that one will eventually define the other and make them one. > > There’s no need for coercion, brutality or anything in order for this to happen. Well yes, in terms of the historical order of brutality proselytizing seems to be the least violent option. It’s weird to me that people aren’t thanking God that those who would seek to change the Jews are resorting to placards and websites rather than ovens and machine guns, but that’s just me. > [@](#): > > In fact, I’d be happy if a group of Muslims that believe in God as I do (which is a cosmic traveller, mover and shaker, and setter of many tables) figure it out. > > In my mind, all peoples are forgiven from erroneousness in their beliefs, from ignorance to faith in “the wrong sect”, provided that they live decent lives and don’t committ crimes against humanity. I agree with you. I believe in one god and I think that Religion is 90% vanity, though that other 10% is something of real value. But ultimately I would like to see a humanity united in a single faith whether that results in the annihilation of Judaism (or Christianity, Buddhism, Islam what have you) as a distinct religion or not. A union of all people as the people of God would certainly spell the end of Judaism, but it would spell the end of Christianity as well, it would spell the end of religion as we know it with it’s constant wars and infighting over theological distinctions that the participants have barely any understanding of. That central wish of Christianity for the universalization of all people under one God is a hope that I share. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/117 "2009-06-29T14:04:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I agree with you. I believe in one god and I think that Religion is 90% vanity, though that other 10% is something of real value. But ultimately I would like to see a humanity united in a single faith whether that results in the annihilation of Judaism (or Christianity, Buddhism, Islam what have you) as a distinct religion or not. A union of all people as the people of God would certainly spell the end of Judaism, but it would spell the end of Christianity as well, it would spell the end of religion as we know it with it’s constant wars and infighting over theological distinctions that the participants have barely any understanding of. That central wish of Christianity for the universalization of all people under one God is a hope that I share. If this is your real goal, you ought to hate Jews for Jesus like poision. Lying to people in order to win converts isn’t the way to unite humanity - quite the opposite. For every Jew converted there are going to be a hundred or a thousand who are offended by the blatant attempt to carry on the age-old effort at getting Jews to convert - in the past by violence and now by trickery. Jews tend to be allergic to this sort of foolery, given the history. If you really wish to win converts without lies or trickery, know what to do? Live life in such a way that others admire you. I’ve known some Christians who do that. They would be the last to participate in a scheme like Jews for Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/118 "2009-06-29T18:51:48Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Pit thread backfire achieved. > [@Shodan](#): > > **Finn** ’s one of my favorite posters. Backfire-backfire achieved. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/119 "2009-06-29T19:04:50Z")
Yeah that’s, er, quite a backfire. Instead, why don’t you go and uncritically lap up the content of a state-controlled Egyptian paper that makes certain claims about an Haaretz article, report them as gospel, and never have the basic intellectual integrity required to actually check out the Haaretz article in the first place? I mean, ya know, [again.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9727994&postcount=280) ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961/120 "2009-06-30T01:30:46Z")
My bolding > [@tomndebb](#): > > You will probabaly fall back on your bit of equivocation, conflating ethnic and religious Jews, while ignoring the fact that **if the religion completely disappears, most likely the ethnic group will lack the cohesion to remain extant.** > > _::: shrug :::_ This is exactly the same crap spewed by nationalists in my country, Greece. They say Christianity is an integral part of our nation and that foreign groups led by jews are conspiring to disrupt that bond between the greek people and religion and how we are all doomed, yada, yada ,yada. It is funny how Finnegan now claims that there’s also a christian conspiracy against jews. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serdar-argics-cousin-is-a-member-of-the-sdmb/500961.md?page=7)