# Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/1 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")
HOLY CRAP!!! Yes it was good. Of course it was good… . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . But Wash and Book BOTH DIE?! I did NOT see that coming! I went with 3 people who hadn’t seen the series – actually, my sister saw half the pilot and didn’t like it – and they all thought it was great so I can see it making a bundle at the box office. At least enough for a sequel :). ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/2 "2005-09-29T14:25:36Z")
I liked the explanation for the reavers: didn’t seem like a cheat and was a whole lot better than “guys who turned savage when they couldn’t take in how big space is.” I loved Kaylee and Simon’s calm before the storm talk – just when my sis started to roll her eyes: “screw this, I’m going to live!” The only thing I didn’t particulairly like was the nebula thingy. It made the big space battle faily generic when I think it could have been done very spookily had they held with the no sound in space rule. It also seemed like something out of Star Trek. I liked how tense Wash’s death made the last battle. At one point (when they’d all been shot in some way) I was starting to wonder if ANY of them were going to live! ---
**Author:** ![Fredescu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/73ab20/32.png) [@Fredescu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fredescu)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/3 "2005-09-29T14:36:27Z")
The best thing about Wash’s death is that it gets you thinking “I wonder if _everyone_ is going to die” in the scenes that follow. If he kills off a main character like Wash, perhaps he’s going to send the whole Firefly idea off with a bang. He doesn’t of course. If a sequel or further series is made though, Wash will be sorely missed ☹ I gathered from the trailers that River would be the driving force of the plot. After watching the series again, I wondered if there would be any room for Book’s story in the movie. Then: “I wasn’t always a shepherd you know.” “Well, that’s something you’ll have to tell me about one day” “Oh no I won’t” Was Innara’s occupation mentioned in the film? If it was I missed it. Damn fine flick. ---
**Author:** ![Fredescu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/73ab20/32.png) [@Fredescu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fredescu)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/4 "2005-09-29T14:42:30Z")
Favourite moments: “Nothin been twixt my nethers in a year that don’t run on batteries” I _loved_ the look River gave Simon after he said “Am I talking to Miranda now?” Jayne thinking the ‘safe word’ could affect him. “Well I know that _now_” ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/5 "2005-09-29T15:07:06Z")
I loved the bit where Serenity leads the reaver fleet through the fog cloud and Ejiofor loses his shit. They never could have done that in the series. I also loved how they played with our expectations about the sound in space rule – the first time you see the ship, it appears to be screaming through space and I know that I, for one, had a second of disappointment that they had sound in there before I made my peace with it (damn studio interference!). And then, a split second after that, you see they’re actually at the edge of atmo. My expectations had been really high, and they were met. (Now I only hope that Saffron shows up in the sequel!) –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/6 "2005-09-29T15:34:11Z")
Also keep in mind that a sequel can be a prequel, or involve flashbacks. Wash and Book may be dead, but that doesn’t mean they are gone. This is Joss we are talking about, remember? Mr. “Death Cannot Stop An Interesting Character” himself. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/7 "2005-09-29T16:05:49Z")
Highly enjoyable with a few flaws: [ul][li]The reavers explanation was good, the reavers themselves were not. They greatly resembled the rage-zombies from _28 Days Later_ in that they’re mindlessly savage. How do such creatures successfully operate spaceships? Why don’t they turn on each other? Also, how do they stay focused long enough for one group of reavers to chase _Serenity_ through a huge space battle (which was kinda cool looking, I’ll admit) and keep after them?[/li][li]A nerve punch that paralyzes you, but lets you keep standing? Aside from being a direct steal from _Kiss of the Dragon_, how the heck does it work? I can imagine a nerve punch that makes you collapse, but locks all your muscles in place?[/li][li]One of the nice points of the series, re: River’s abilities is that while they _hinted_ she might be psychic, psychic abilities generally were unproven, thus Wash and Mal and others expressed doubt, while the more credulous Jayne started to buy into it. Now Whedon’s gotten a bit lazy. She’s psychic? Sure, why not? It’s a weak pseudoscientific element in an otherwise reasonably plausible story.[/li][li]Why was River created as “the ultimate weapon”, anyway? It looks like her abilities could be put to far better uses than getting into brawls, where all it would take is one bullet to blow away all that expensive training and conditioning.[/ul][/li] Otherways, shiny. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/8 "2005-09-30T00:13:58Z")
Just thought of another thing I liked: although the trailers made it seem like it was going to be Buffy in Space it really wasn’t about River. Sure she was the catalyst but in terms of screen time she was still a supporting player. I liked that :). ---
**Author:** ![Fredescu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/73ab20/32.png) [@Fredescu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fredescu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/9 "2005-09-30T00:27:46Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Why was River created as “the ultimate weapon”, anyway? It looks like her abilities could be put to far better uses than getting into brawls, where all it would take is one bullet to blow away all that expensive training and conditioning. A psychic assassin is surely more deadly than a non-psychic assassin. All we really need to assume to make River’s training plausible is that the Alliance had a need for a super assassin. That’s not much of a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Fredescu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/73ab20/32.png) [@Fredescu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fredescu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/10 "2005-09-30T01:16:24Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Also keep in mind that a sequel can be a prequel, or involve flashbacks. Wash and Book may be dead, but that doesn’t mean they are gone. Fair enough. Wash certainly. I just thought that Book’s statement had a bit of finality to it, almost as if they were telling us not to expect to find out any more about it. I hope there are enough future Firefly/Serenity stories for us to find out more about Book, but it won’t be a priority IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/11 "2005-09-30T13:59:38Z")
> [@Fredescu](#): > > A psychic assassin is surely more deadly than a non-psychic assassin. All we really need to assume to make River’s training plausible is that the Alliance had a need for a super assassin. That’s not much of a stretch. Yeah, but that unnamed black guy seemed pretty skilled and he wasn’t subjected (or at least it wasn’t hinted at) to an extended period of neurosurgery and whatnot. Pity we never saw him and River mixing it up. To me, this has always been the flaw of “super assassin” stories; it’ll always be easier to just take the most talented members of the your armed forces, give them extensive training, pick the best among them and give them access to advanced weaponry. There’s no real need to mess around with their brains, which can clearly have many negative side-effects. I liked it better when psychic abilities were dismissed as nonsense, because I simply don’t like fictional psychics. They act as deus-ex-machina plot devices, they’re never wrong, and there needn’t be any reasonable limits imposed on their abilities. A whole lotta crappy stories can jump off _that_ springboard. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/12 "2005-09-30T19:32:04Z")
I’m still in a bit of shock. I was totally broadsided by Book and Wash. I don’t think I fully accepted it until the funeral. Hollywood has me so conditioned not to accept a main character dying—the whole appearing-to-die-only-to-show-up-smiling-in-the-infirmary thing. Egad… _never_ finding out the back story to Book? Wash is dead?! I sometimes empathize with Annie Wilkes. At least we finally got to see the crappy planet where he was a hero. I liked that the premise of the River-hunt wasn’t standard Evil Overlord fare, i.e. she’s our great assassin and we want her back. One of Jubal the Second’s opening lines set a great tone: “you put a psychic in the same room with key members of parliament?” (Though I’m somewhat confused by what Bootsy Collins and George Clinton could have had to do with Reavers). What do you think happened to Jubal II’s character at the end? Did he let them go because after the broadcast he knew the point of his mission (stopping the signal) was moot? But then why was he no longer the Alliances’ man? I assume he had orders to stop her, but had no idea what was on Miranda—lots of information _about_ her and her school would have been in the files he had access to, but if she knew about Miranda via her ‘abilities,’ he would have been in the dark. Did he see the tape and have some sort of conversion then? Seems a bit strong given his cold background as shown. Was he inspired by Mal et al? Some combination? I’m also wondering what happened to news of the sequels. I could have sworn that IMDB’s trivia page for Serenity said that Universal had already signed on for three movies and that the entire cast had as well, but that isn’t there right now. Lastly, did anyone else get that kicked in the gut feeling as Serenity lost her landing gear, then her engines, etc? The feeling was overshadowed by later events, but was powerful nonetheless. All in all a fantastic movie, one that more than met my expectations. But I’m still reeling from the loss. I feel like I swallowed a bug. Rhythm ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/13 "2005-09-30T19:42:35Z")
I’m still in a bit of shock. I was totally broadsided by Book and Wash. I don’t think I fully accepted it until the funeral. Hollywood has me so conditioned not to accept a main character dying—the whole appearing-to-die-only-to-show-up-smiling-in-the-infirmary thing. Egad… _never_ finding out the back story to Book? Wash is dead?! I sometimes empathize with Annie Wilkes. At least we finally got to see the crappy planet where he was a hero. I liked that the premise of the River-hunt wasn’t standard Evil Overlord fare, i.e. she’s our great assassin and we want her back. One of Jubal the Second’s opening lines set a great tone: “you put a psychic in the same room with key members of parliament?” (Though I’m somewhat confused by what Bootsy Collins and George Clinton could have had to do with Reavers). What do you think happened to Jubal II’s character at the end? Did he let them go because after the broadcast he knew the point of his mission (stopping the signal) was moot? But then why was he no longer the Alliances’ man? I assume he had orders to stop her, but had no idea what was on Miranda—lots of information _about_ her and her school would have been in the files he had access to, but if she knew about Miranda via her ‘abilities,’ he would have been in the dark. Did he see the tape and have some sort of conversion then? Seems a bit strong given his cold background as shown. Was he inspired by Mal et al? Some combination? I’m also wondering what happened to news of the sequels. I could have sworn that IMDB’s trivia page for Serenity said that Universal had already signed on for three movies and that the entire cast had as well, but that isn’t there right now. Lastly, did anyone else get that kicked in the gut feeling as Serenity lost her landing gear, then her engines, etc? The feeling was overshadowed by later events, but was powerful nonetheless. All in all a fantastic movie, one that more than met my expectations. But I’m still reeling from the loss. I feel like I swallowed a bug. Rhythm ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/14 "2005-09-30T19:55:54Z")
I’m still in a bit of shock. I was totally broadsided by Book and Wash. I don’t think I fully accepted it until the funeral. Hollywood has me so conditioned not to accept a main character dying—the whole appearing-to-die-only-to-show-up-smiling-in-the-infirmary thing. Egad… _never_ finding out the back story to Book? Wash is dead?! I sometimes empathize with Annie Wilkes. At least we finally got to see the crappy planet where he was a hero. I liked that the premise of the River-hunt wasn’t standard Evil Overlord fare, i.e. she’s our great assassin and we want her back. One of Jubal the Second’s opening lines set a great tone: “you put a psychic in the same room with key members of parliament?” (Though I’m somewhat confused by what Bootsy Collins and George Clinton could have had to do with Reavers). What do you think happened to Jubal II’s character at the end? Did he let them go because after the broadcast he knew the point of his mission (stopping the signal) was moot? But then why was he no longer the Alliances’ man? I assume he had orders to stop her, but had no idea what was on Miranda—lots of information _about_ her and her school would have been in the files he had access to, but if she knew about Miranda via her ‘abilities,’ he would have been in the dark. Did he see the tape and have some sort of conversion then? Seems a bit strong given his cold background as shown. Was he inspired by Mal et al? Some combination? I’m also wondering what happened to news of the sequels. I could have sworn that IMDB’s trivia page for Serenity said that Universal had already signed on for three movies and that the entire cast had as well, but that isn’t there right now. Lastly, did anyone else get that kicked in the gut feeling as Serenity lost her landing gear, then her engines, etc? The feeling was overshadowed by later events, but was powerful nonetheless. All in all a fantastic movie, one that more than met my expectations. But I’m still reeling from the loss. I feel like I swallowed a bug. Rhythm ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/15 "2005-09-30T20:07:39Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I liked that the premise of the River-hunt wasn’t standard Evil Overlord fare, i.e. she’s our great assassin and we want her back. Well, I dunno. There were at least a dozen Alliance ships lined up to destroy _Serenity_ as soon as it emerged from the rather improbable space cloud. I can imagine them deciding that if they can’t readily recapture River, best to simply kill her. > [@](#): > > What do you think happened to Jubal II’s character at the end? I can see him taking his sword and going all Seppuku with it. On reflection, Mal was talking to him in a rather civil tone at the end, considering that this guy had ordered the slaughter of many of Mal’s associates. I’d’ve thought Mal would just shoot him (in the head, because of that pesky body armor) given the chance. Had the guy been surrounded by the same armed Alliance troops that came within a hair of blowing River away, then I can imagine Mal simply walking away, but leaving a time-bomb behind, or something. > [@](#): > > Lastly, did anyone else get that kicked in the gut feeling as Serenity lost her landing gear, then her engines, etc? The feeling was overshadowed by later events, but was powerful nonetheless. Well, Wash getting killed was way worse, but as with the _Star Trek_ films, destroying (or massively refitting) this ship gives an opportunity to build a more elaborate replacement. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/16 "2005-09-30T20:24:45Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Lastly, did anyone else get that kicked in the gut feeling as Serenity lost her landing gear, then her engines, etc? The feeling was overshadowed by later events, but was powerful nonetheless. The ship has always been as much of a character as any of the crew members. Watching it get beat all to hell was nearly as painful as watch Wash and all the others get it. No one ended up unscathed, except River. Wait, maybe Inarra too? I forget already. There was an audible gasp in the theater where I saw it when Wash got stabbed. Man. NOT WASH! Dammit. At least they left the plastic dinosaurs up for him. What a great flick. I only have two minor complaints. First, the exposition and backstory was (very understandably) rushed and somewhat awkward. And secondly, I couldn’t help but think how much more satisfying that story would have been if it had been spread out over several years. It felt crammed, especially Inarra’s story. Ah, well. It’s as good as we had any reason to expect. Can anyone reassure me that I didn’t miss anything by not staying to the end of the credits? I’m always paranoid about that. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/17 "2005-09-30T20:29:46Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Lastly, did anyone else get that kicked in the gut feeling as Serenity lost her landing gear, then her engines, etc? The feeling was overshadowed by later events, but was powerful nonetheless. The ship has always been as much of a character as any of the crew members. Watching it get beat all to hell was nearly as painful as watch Wash and all the others get it. No one ended up unscathed, except River. Wait, maybe Inarra too? I forget already. There was an audible gasp in the theater where I saw it when Wash got stabbed. Man. NOT WASH! Dammit. At least they left the plastic dinosaurs up for him. What a great flick. I only have two minor complaints. First, the exposition and backstory was (very understandably) rushed and somewhat awkward. And secondly, I couldn’t help but think how much more satisfying that story would have been if it had been spread out over several years. It felt crammed, especially Inarra’s story. Ah, well. It’s as good as we had any reason to expect. Can anyone reassure me that I didn’t miss anything by not staying to the end of the credits? I’m always paranoid about that. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/18 "2005-09-30T20:36:50Z")
I agree, although the deaths were shocking, they damned well ramped up the dramatic tension–I honestly wasn’t sure for a while there that _ **EVERYBODY** _ wasn’t going to die, the entire rearguard killed and eaten (or worse yet, eaten and killed) and Mal sending the transmission as his last dying act. Normally, when main characters get in seemingly impossible situations, in the back of your mind you know that everything’s going to be OK; the hero will save the day and rescue the girl; that tasering or that gunshot wound to the abdomen or sword slash won’t be fatal\*, and hell, all those cannibal zombies that just got locked into a room with the 90-pound teenage girl are really fucked now, aren’t they? But this movie didn’t let you do that. Damn, I’m gonna miss Wash and Book, though–it’s not like there were _any_ of the characters I would have been happy to dispense with. \*Didn’t Mal get kind of _run through_ at one point there? I’m definitely going to have to watch that again… ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/19 "2005-09-30T20:42:15Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Can anyone reassure me that I didn’t miss anything by not staying to the end of the credits? I’m always paranoid about that. What, you missed the scenes where they showed Book and Wash transferring their _katras_ to River before they died? Hmmm… They’d better not actually _do_ that in the sequels, gorammit! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/20 "2005-09-30T20:50:10Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Can anyone reassure me that I didn’t miss anything by not staying to the end of the credits? I’m always paranoid about that. I stayed, you didn’t. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=2)