# Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/261 "2005-10-03T16:08:29Z")
When Book was younger, yes. On the other hand, if Book had managed to train Jayne up a bit… remember the workout sessions? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/262 "2005-10-03T16:10:29Z")
Despite my intention to avoid this movie, I got drawn in - a close friend of mine was adamant about seeing it, and only slightly less than adamant that I should see it with her. Ah, Joss, you’ve done it again. You miracle worker, you. You somehow took a movie I’d entirely written off, and with its band of criminal misfits, corrupt government figures, alien-minded antagonists, and ‘enhanced’ female centerpiece, made a wonderful, original delight, and even managed to work in a hot robot chick and plenty of action. I refer, of course, to **Alien : Resurrection** , which I have a sudden newfound appreciation for. **Serenity** ’s dialogue was sparkling and entertaining, as expected. The plot was clumsy. The dramatic character moments cliched. The action looked good, as did the effects. Wash’s death was an instant mood-killer - it robbed the film of any entertainment value for me, for one. While it raised the idea that other main characters might die, I didn’t really care anymore. And it was a hokey device one can see in every teeny-slasher movie, ever. “We’re safe!” _crunch_/_slice_ “Oh no, just when we thought we were safe, one of the best-liked characters died!” ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/263 "2005-10-03T16:15:03Z")
> [@archmichael](#): > > -Is it just me or did River seem almost designed to fight Reavers. Nope. It’s not just you. > [@](#): > > - Chiwetel Ejiofor is phenomenal. The man definitely has screen presence. He was also good in ‘Four Brothers’. He had me at [_Dirty Pretty Things_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301199/). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/264 "2005-10-03T16:42:36Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Jewel Staite wanted to lose the weight and never liked gaining it in the first place. It may’ve been because being skinnier helped her career or, more likely, it could have been because she’s 23, has a body she is proud of, and wants it to look a certain way. It’s her decision, not Hollywood’s. How’s that? I’ve heard of a number of roles which _male_ actors were expected to gain weight for. > [@Raguleader](#): > > It’s that hollywood standard that guys have to be anorexic to get any screen time 😉 I was talking with my wife about this last night, and she agreed with me that Mal and Wash looked thinner in the movie, as well as some of the others. (I only noticed it with those two and of course Kaylee.) > [@](#): > > IIRC there’s a line to the effect that Simon and River have been with the ship for eight months. Assuming something approximating real time for the series, that puts Serenity about six months after “Objects in Space.” The original series lasted 14 weeks of our time, of course - but the Firefly-verse time between episodes varied considerably. IIRC, it’s said that the cattle that Mal picks up after the end of “Shindig” that he drops off at the beginning of “Safe” have been on the ship for three weeks. And another measure of elapsed time between episodes is the time needed for wounds to heal. For instance, Kaylee’s shot in the stomach in the pilot episode, but she’s not suffering ill effects in “The Train Job.” They do have higher-tech diagnostic stuff in the 26th century, even on _Firefly_, but it doesn’t seem like they’ve got any magical pixie dust that helps your innards heal faster once they patch you up; it looks like your body’s ability to self-repair still has to take over at that point. So my admittedly loose guesstimate is that the series encompasses about 4-6 months worth of time in the Firefly-verse. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/265 "2005-10-03T16:44:11Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > The simplest explanation is that one cannon is what he could scrounge up at short notice. I think the cannon is the one Book was under. I guess there could be more than one, but it works too. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/266 "2005-10-03T16:49:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Zoe mentions that Reynolds was in command of some absurd number of troops for a sergeant at one point; maybe there was a battlefield promotion to Captain. From an enlisted grunt to a midrange officer? Not likely. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > How’s that? I’ve heard of a number of roles which male actors were expected to gain weight for. How’s what? I’m not understanding your question. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/267 "2005-10-03T16:55:28Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > From an enlisted grunt to a midrange officer? Not likely. > > How’s what? I’m not understanding your question. I think RTF is saying that sometimes Hollywood DOES dictate how an actor should look for a certain role Renee Z in both Bridget Jones movies - she had to gain about 30 lbs to play that part, lsot it after the first one, gained it back for the second one and lost it again once that wrapped. Tom Hanks had to be 30 lbs overweight for “League of Their Own” and 20lbs UNDER weight for “Philadelphia” and those were shot back to back (IIRC, but I’m not sure which one came first without looking it up) Hollywood often also dictates hair color as well A much earlier post in this thread stated that Jewel made a special request to maintain the weight she worked so hard to achieve and Joss agreed ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/268 "2005-10-03T17:05:19Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > I think RTF is saying that sometimes Hollywood DOES dictate how an actor should look for a certain role You nailed it - thanks. And great examples, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/269 "2005-10-03T17:09:10Z")
Yes. Christian Bale in _The Machinist_ is another example but that has no bearing on Jewel Staite’s portrayal of Kaylee. You’re just assuming she’s so thin because “Hollywood demands it” when it’s just as likely she prefers her body that way since she never wanted to gain the extra twenty pounds in the first place and is at an age when appearance matters dearly. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/270 "2005-10-03T18:00:35Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Yes. Christian Bale in _The Machinist_ is another example but that has no bearing on Jewel Staite’s portrayal of Kaylee. You’re just assuming she’s so thin because “Hollywood demands it” when it’s just as likely she prefers her body that way since she never wanted to gain the extra twenty pounds in the first place and is at an age when appearance matters dearly. You’re right: Hollywood’s demands on actresses have had exactly no effect on how young women perceive their bodies. And the reasons her appearance matters dearly to her couldn’t possibly include the industry’s expectations of how thin an actress needs to be in order to find good roles. Forget I said anything. At any rate, what I was originally disagreeing with you about was your statement that what weight she should be at in order to portray Kaylee was completely hers. We seem to be in agreement that actors and actresses are more than occasionally expected to gain or lose weight to play a particular role, which certainly implies that the decision was Staite’s to make only if Whedon chose to let it be so. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/271 "2005-10-03T18:08:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You’re right: Hollywood’s demands on actresses have had exactly no effect on how young women perceive their bodies. And the reasons her appearance matters dearly to her couldn’t possibly include the industry’s expectations of how thin an actress needs to be in order to find good roles. Forget I said anything. > > At any rate, what I was originally disagreeing with you about was your statement that what weight she should be at in order to portray Kaylee was completely hers. We seem to be in agreement that actors and actresses are more than occasionally expected to gain or lose weight to play a particular role, which certainly implies that the decision was Staite’s to make only if Whedon chose to let it be so. I didn’t say they had no effect, only that we don’t know why Staite prefers to be thinner. It could be her own personal decision independent of her profession or it could be Hollywood’s or some combination thereof. We really do not know. That said, I’m not trying to nitpick although it probably seems that way. My apologies if you took offense. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/272 "2005-10-03T18:24:52Z")
Other than plot, any reason they couldn’t transmit the message to Mr. Universe who would forward it on to everyone? The sgt / captain is probably just a goof, but it IS possible that rank structure has changed in the future? Brian ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/273 "2005-10-03T18:34:23Z")
> [@Johnny Angel](#): > > Jayne – He went through a tremendous and unsubtle change in character that doesn’t make much sense. He checks other people’s seat belts? He is clearly heroic in the stand off against the reavers? I mean, I do think that he has an even stronger reaction to the Reavers than anyone else. It seems to affect him deeply, and I had the impression that he was enobled by a chance to do something about them. But this is interpretation – it’s not at all clear what motivates his change. “Shepherd Book always said, if you can’t do what’s smart, do what’s right.” Jayne is alternatly dismissive, disgusted, or terrified of everyone else on the ship - but Book was his friend. And the Alliance killed him. I think that played a big role in his actions in the second half of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/274 "2005-10-03T18:36:46Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Other than plot, any reason they couldn’t transmit the message to Mr. Universe who would forward it on to everyone? > The sgt / captain is probably just a goof, but it IS possible that rank structure has changed in the future? 1)The info was on a chip/disc that seemed to require a specific type of reader, one which _Serenity_ might not have had onboard. 2)Not that much! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/275 "2005-10-03T20:20:09Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > That said, I’m not trying to nitpick although it probably seems that way. My apologies if you took offense. My apologies too - I think we were talking past each other. I’d thought it was clear that I was disagreeing with “It’s her decision, not Hollywood’s,” and it seems that you thought I was taking issue with the other part of your post I’d quoted. (Which I’d included only so that people wouldn’t have go go back a page or two to find out what ‘it’ and ‘her’ referred to.) I guess I wasn’t as clear as I thought. Sorry about the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![akira5822](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@akira5822](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akira5822)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/276 "2005-10-03T21:38:49Z")
> [@Asylum](#): > > She’s hot no matter what, but did anyone else find her hotter when she had more weight? I did. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/277 "2005-10-03T22:09:25Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > From an enlisted grunt to a midrange officer? Not likely. How do you figure? It’s possible that the Independence Army in the 26th Century is somewhat more lax on promotion requirements than most contemporary militaries are in the early 21st century. Also, if Serenity Valley was as crushing a defeat as has been implied (and assuming the war continued for a time after that battle), Sergeant Reynolds might have easily been promoted and commended for his actions in the battle. I seem to recall that during WWII, fast promotions were common in bomber units of the US Army Air Force (a man in his mid-20’s was “The Old Man”, and could find himself commanding an entire squadron of bombers). ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/278 "2005-10-03T22:10:41Z")
Oh, and in reference to everyone being skinny in the movie: Is it possible that after spending the entire show complaining about the lack of food, that they’ve lost weight due to having to cut back or starve? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/279 "2005-10-03T22:17:24Z")
> [@Johnny Angel](#): > > The Technology – I liked the hover capabilities of the new mule, and the fact that Serenity now has ambulatory landing gear, but they made me think that it would be difficult to go back to a TV show budget after that. I don’t think there was ever any real chance that they’d go back to TV, and, besides, does the budget for CG really increase significantly once you’ve already got the models built? Overall, I really enjoyed the movie, and most of what I would say has already been said, but there were at least two nitpicks that (I think) no one has mentioned yet. Mal, after shooting the gun out of the hand of the Operative, fails to actually _kill_ him and just _turns his back_ to jump onto the monkey bars. He’s already seen what happens when you turn your back on this guy, and he already knows that the Operative’s wearing body armor. 30 minutes earlier, we see him take out a random Alliance soldier at 50 yards, but he can’t take two steps to the right to line up a headshot? The entire crew gets off of Serenity on Miranda. There’s just no way that makes sense. Mal would take River and Jayne (and possibly Zoe, but without Book around, he might leave her with the ship) and leave the others there. We’ve seen how effective Simon, Kaylee and Wash are in a tactical situation in the past, and every _other_ encounter with Reavers has required a quick evacuation and some fancy flying. Yet they just wander aimlessly around a menacingly dead city with no one back in Serenity after going past an entire fleet of Reavers. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/280 "2005-10-03T22:33:25Z")
Someone asked what the shot Simon gave Mal was, and I found the answer: from the [serenitymovie.com](http://serenitymovie.com) website > [@](#): > > Simon injects crew members with a common immuno-booster, Ivoprovalyn, when their work takes them to less-than-sanitary places… which is pretty much always. I don’t remember anything like that from the series, but there you go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=15)