# Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/281 "2005-10-03T22:51:41Z")
> [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > The entire crew gets off of Serenity on Miranda. There’s just no way that makes sense. Mal would take River and Jayne (and possibly Zoe, but without Book around, he might leave her with the ship) and leave the others there. We’ve seen how effective Simon, Kaylee and Wash are in a tactical situation in the past, and every _other_ encounter with Reavers has required a quick evacuation and some fancy flying. Yet they just wander aimlessly around a menacingly dead city with no one back in Serenity after going past an entire fleet of Reavers. Exactly–this wasn’t like every other encounter with Reavers. To them, Serentiy and everyone on board was one of their own. It’s a dead planet and they weren’t followed, so no reason for anyone to stay behind. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/282 "2005-10-03T23:00:12Z")
It’s probable that the shot Simon gives Mal is just to establish that he is the ship’s medic and doesn’t really have any non-expository meaning, just like Mal referring to Wash as “your husband” when talking to Zoe at the start. ---
**Author:** ![gardentraveler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gardentraveler/32/3576_2.png) [@gardentraveler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gardentraveler)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/283 "2005-10-03T23:53:24Z")
> [@BayleDomon](#): > > It’s probable that the shot Simon gives Mal is just to establish that he is the ship’s medic and doesn’t really have any non-expository meaning, just like Mal referring to Wash as “your husband” when talking to Zoe at the start. It also reminded me a bit of the speech at the end of the scene where Simon is treating Jayne in _Trash_ (at least I think that’s the right episode). In the movie, even though Simon and Mal are yelling at each other, Simon is making sure Mal’s medical needs are met. GT ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/284 "2005-10-03T23:55:32Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > How do you figure? It’s possible that the Independence Army in the 26th Century is somewhat more lax on promotion requirements than most contemporary militaries are in the early 21st century. Also, if Serenity Valley was as crushing a defeat as has been implied (and assuming the war continued for a time after that battle), Sergeant Reynolds might have easily been promoted and commended for his actions in the battle. > > I seem to recall that during WWII, fast promotions were common in bomber units of the US Army Air Force (a man in his mid-20’s was “The Old Man”, and could find himself commanding an entire squadron of bombers). Yes, battlefield promotions happen but 1) they’re usually withdrawn once the war is over and 2) he was a Sergeant which is an _enlisted_ rank. Battlefield promotions aren’t going to make an E5 an O3 no matter how good a soldier they are. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/285 "2005-10-03T23:59:38Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Yes, battlefield promotions happen but 1) they’re usually withdrawn once the war is over Er, withdrawn by whom? (The Alliance wouldn’t deign to officially recognize them sufficiently to revoke individual commissions.) > [@](#): > > he was a Sergeant which is an _enlisted_ rank. Battlefield promotions aren’t going to make an E5 an O3 no matter how good a soldier they are. Historically, battlefield commisions have been known to happen in conditions where the officer corps has been thinned to the breaking point. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/286 "2005-10-04T00:27:25Z")
They deigned to recognize his rank in the first place and it’s still very improbable an enlisted man – someone who signed up at a recruiter’s office – would be promoted to a commissioned officer which requires extensive schooling and training. If he had been promoted, he would have been a Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, or Master Sergeant, not a Captain. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/287 "2005-10-04T00:30:32Z")
Of course, the logical explanation is that they were refering to him as Captain of the _Serenity_. But that wouldn’t be in his military records. In any case, the movie was great, I loved it, and I want more. Many, many more. **Now, dammit!!!** I am sooo Joss’s bitch. ---
**Author:** ![easy\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@easy\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/easy_e)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/288 "2005-10-04T01:28:09Z")
> [@archmichael](#): > > -Is it just me or did River seem almost designed to fight Reavers. When I was watching her fight them, I thought “Man, the way she’s kicking their asses, you’d think the Reavers would start to worship her or something.” Though I realized that was cheesy and too close to the Borg Queen from Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/289 "2005-10-04T02:03:21Z")
Two things I haven’t seen mentioned yet. When I saw the Ion Cloud I assumed it was something artificial for communications. I figured Mr.Universe was just a gifted person the Alliance put in charge of monitoring the comings and goings of the solar systems waves, using the ion cloud to amplify. He helps out people like Serenity’s crew because of boredom. With all the information he goes through he could simply say he missed something if the Alliance asks what waves he’s seeing or sending. It explains why Mal expected an Alliance fleet if it was an Alliance world. He also probably didn’t expect them to kill Universe and destroy his equipment if he was working for them and helping Mal in private. I’m suprised no one has mentioned yet that Mal was outside the ship when they did the firefly burst thing. He shoots the Reaver ship, tell the Wash to gun it and appears to still be outside when the engine fires. Did I miss something or was he just strapped on real tight? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/290 "2005-10-04T02:06:05Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Of course, the logical explanation is that they were refering to him as Captain of the _Serenity_. But that wouldn’t be in his military records. > > In any case, the movie was great, I loved it, and I want more. Many, many more. **Now, dammit!!!** > I am sooo Joss’s bitch. I don’t recall exactly how the info he pulled up on Mal was organized, but it wasn’t only his military career - it also had his arrest record, which one would assume was post-Serenity Vale. Also, doesn’t Badger have a line in one of the episodes, something along the lines of, “You used to be a seargent during the war, now you’re a captain”? I think the Captain thing is strictly refering to his capacity as captain of the Serenity. > [@wearia](#): > > I’m suprised no one has mentioned yet that Mal was outside the ship when they did the firefly burst thing. He shoots the Reaver ship, tell the Wash to gun it and appears to still be outside when the engine fires. Did I miss something or was he just strapped on real tight? I don’t think he’d need to be strapped in at all. He’s in outer space. It’s not like moving real fast is going to make a lot of wind. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/291 "2005-10-04T02:07:41Z")
The Captain/Sergeant thing is a simple mistake. An episode of the show featured Mal being questioned at length by an Alliance officer, who kept referring to Mal as “Sergeant”, and Mal kept correcting him by saying he wasn’t a soldier anymore, but rather Captain of _Serenity_. I’m guessing Whedon flubbed it, or couldn’t think of a good way to condense it into one sentence of dialog. ---
**Author:** ![Osip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4491bb/32.png) [@Osip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osip)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/292 "2005-10-04T02:22:16Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Reynolds mentions in one episode that the pece negotiations dragged on while both sides left there troops suffering in the field. Maybe they handed out medals during that time. > Zoe mentions that Reynolds was in command of some absurd number of troops for a sergeant at one point; maybe there was a battlefield promotion to Captain. Actually, Mal was just a Sergeant in the war. (Badger mentions it in the pilot) Serenity Valley was not the final battle of the war, just the beginning of the end. (Lee’s surrender was not the end of the US civil war.) In a deleted scene (I believe on the dvds) Zoe is explaining to Simon. Mal was a sergeant, he ended up commanding many men because the officers died. I found it implied, Mal was also an inspiring leader, so it would be logical for troops who lost CO’s to rally around him. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/293 "2005-10-04T02:25:46Z")
I agree it’s a mistake and nothing to worry about and am only arguing against the rationalization that a Sergeant could be promoted to Captain which is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/294 "2005-10-04T02:37:39Z")
For those people complaining that Mal was too dark, particularly at the second half of the movie, remember his comment to Inara? It was something about how if she ever saw the soldier-Mal, she wouldn’t recognize him. That’s what we were seeing at the second half of the movie. That’s when Mal changed from scam artist and thief to rebel soldier, willing to risk everything, his crew, his ship, for what he believes. As for Mal and River, I think he really does care for her, all through the movie, even when he was willing to let Simon take her off the ship. Remember, he was ready to space Jane, a long-term shipmate when he no longer trusted him, but even after River showed herself dangerous even to him, once she was loose on the ship, he told the crew not to draw their weapons against her. StG ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/295 "2005-10-04T03:11:10Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I agree it’s a mistake and nothing to worry about and am only arguing against the rationalization that a Sergeant could be promoted to Captain which is absurd. A World War II Vet I met at the library where I worked recounted how an inlisted man was promoted to lieutenant at, I believe, the Battle of the Bulge. However, I vote that it is a reference to being Captain of _Serenity_. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/296 "2005-10-04T03:28:34Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > It was something about how if she ever saw the soldier-Mal, she wouldn’t recognize him. Heck, _we_ saw soldier-Mal (in “The Message”), and he was just running around and yelling like some kinda idjit. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/297 "2005-10-04T03:35:23Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Yes, battlefield promotions happen but 1) they’re usually withdrawn once the war is over and 2) he was a Sergeant which is an _enlisted_ rank. Battlefield promotions aren’t going to make an E5 an O3 no matter how good a soldier they are. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_commission): > [@](#): > > Normally, enlisted men or non-commissioned officers cannot attain the rank of commissioned officer through regular promotion. Starting in 1917, during World War I, the United States Army started giving battlefield commissions to soldiers to replace the “Brevet Officer” system (the promotion of an enlisted man to a commissioned officer without an increase in pay). The Marine Corps started giving battlefield commissions in place of the Brevet Medal, which was second only to the Medal of Honor. **From World War I to the Vietnam conflict, over 31,200 soldiers, marines, and airmen have been awarded battlefield commissions.** Not only that, but I’m sure there were a number of enlisted men or junior officers that wound up moving up several grades due to battlefield promotions during the various wars. As an example off the top of my head, Richard Winters of Easy Company (made famous in ‘Band of Brothers’) landed behind the lines on D-Day as a 1st Lt, and was a major within six months. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/298 "2005-10-04T03:39:09Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I agree it’s a mistake and nothing to worry about and am only arguing against the rationalization that a Sergeant could be promoted to Captain which is absurd. Except he’s captain of his own freaking ship. Nitpick much? You’re arguing because people find your nitpick inane and whiney. Jesus. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/299 "2005-10-04T03:58:28Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Heck, _we_ saw soldier-Mal (in “The Message”), and he was just running around and yelling like some kinda idjit. Yes, but this is new, improved, post-Serenity Valley soldier-Mal, with 200% more angst, bitterness, and jaw-clenching. I looked at Mal’s behavior much the way **StGermain** did. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/300 "2005-10-04T04:00:33Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > They deigned to recognize his rank in the first place and it’s still very improbable an enlisted man – someone who signed up at a recruiter’s office – would be promoted to a commissioned officer which requires extensive schooling and training. If he had been promoted, he would have been a Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, or Master Sergeant, not a Captain. Mitchell Paige, a Medal of Honor recipient, was a Platoon Sergeant on Guadalcanal, and he received a battlefield commission to 2nd lt, and a battlefield promotion to 1st Lt, and then was subsequently promoted all the way up to Colonel, the rank he retired with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=16)