# Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/321 "2005-10-04T17:32:53Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > and forget those Rim people! > -Joe No, they are a source of labor and income. Tax the mud. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/322 "2005-10-04T18:51:54Z")
Finally saw it last night, and loved it. One of my peeves in the TV series was the implausible origin and continued existence of the Reavers, but the movie explanation made pretty good sense. The rewrite of the River rescue did bother me. In the rescue scene Simon seemed to know a lot about River’s condition, and finds out yet more from the scientist. Yet Simon seemed clueless about her condition in the first few episodes of the TV series. Was there an explanation of why the Serenity crew wasn’t affected by the pacifying agent? Shouldn’t it still be in Miranda’s atmosphere? > [@SenorBeef](#): > > 30 Million people die on a planet and no one even knows about it? The Alliance seems to have a pretty tight control over the telecommunications network (“Cortex”), so it doesn’t seem so implausible. Even outlaws like the Serenity crew seem dependent on the Cortex. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/323 "2005-10-04T19:05:28Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Was there an explanation of why the Serenity crew wasn’t affected by the pacifying agent? Shouldn’t it still be in Miranda’s atmosphere? From the description in the recording, it sounded like it took a while for effects to set in. At least a couple days, maybe weeks or months. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/324 "2005-10-04T19:22:09Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > And it’s 2005 C.E. 🙂 The _ **Firefly** _ episodes running on the Sci-fi channel identify the year as 2517. Given the series didn’t “date stamp” the episodes, I’d figure about 4 to 6 months passed during the series, and about another 4 to 6 passed between _Objects In Space_ and _ **Serenity** _ > [@Raguleader](#): > > Once again, I’m gonna make my oft-made statement that an air-cooled weapon would have some severe problems when used in a vacuum (nothing to cool the weapon with). > > That, or Jayne just didn’t know what he was talking about. 😉 Well, “Jayne” (Adam Baldwin) as an actor, read the script he was handed. And while air cooled weapons might need more air than vacuum for sustained fire, IIRC, Jayne only took about three to five shots in _Our Mrs. Reynolds_, so heat build-up probably wasn’t too much an issue with so few shots. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > So… when they were landing in Haven, there was this weird shot in which they flew past a lot of stonework with the name “Haven” written on it, which I thought implied that they were flying into a tunnel, so I thought Haven was underground, but then it wasn’t. What was that shot? Haven looked to have been a mining town at some point, but the equipment now looks severely disused. I thought Serenity was hiding in a mine shaft (y’know; one that _isn’t_ actually a giant space slug hiding in an asteroid). > [@Aesiron](#): > > Well, no, I don’t think they’re self-sustaining either but if my numbers are right (I honestly don’t remember if it was ten, one, or a tenth of one percent but am going with three million until proven wrong) then I don’t think they would have very much trouble doing everything they had been credited with, which was my only point and why I was comparing them with Vikings and Huns. > > 30,000 seems a little low for that, though. It was 1/10 of 1%. I caught it on second viewing. And since the Reavers are only hitting the outlying planets and moons, which have relatively small-ish settlements (think of the village in _Safe_), it wouldn’t take many Reavers, in a surprise attack, to wipe one out. Given their hyper-aggressive natures and “ambush tactics.” > [@silenus](#): > > Major error that I spotted: When The Operative was scrolling down Mal’s dossier, it said that he got a medal for the Battle of Serenity Valley. How is that possible? It was the last battle of the war, and Mal’s side lost. No medals. I got the impression from the series that the Battle of Serenity Valley “broke the back” of the Independents, and was the last _major_ battle of the war, but it wasn’t the end of the movement. > [@NE Texan](#): > > I have a few nitpicks: > > _Every_ place that Mal’s ever gone to ground was toasted? That’s a lot of places to hit in a short time, not to mention try to find, no? If they were that easy to find, why hasn’t Mal been caught before? Before this, Mal was “small time,” and the Alliance hadn’t needed to root him out with a high-powered “Operative,” who can command considerable resources on a singular mission. > [@NE Texan](#): > > I don’t buy Jubal II’s sudden surrender. He seems very goal oriented, and didn’t really care how bad the Alliance was before. I understand what Whedon was trying to say, but I didn’t see any hint that Jubal II was a person who would come around. It seemed like he would have let the Alliance have the Serenity crew at that point, and certainly wouldn’t help the ship get repaired. That just rings false (character-wise) in my opinion. How evil is evil? Is anyone beyond “redemption?” Is it inconcievabel that the Operative, who does consider himself a man of honor to some extent, can’t recognize that virtue in an adversary? Or that his confidence in his supremacy (self and moral) was knocked aback by getting beaten by mal? > [@NE Texan](#): > > Overall, though, it felt too… final. I felt that Whedon tried to reveal all these points that he did not get to in the series – the origin of the Reavers, some of the things the Alliance would go to, River’s background, why they were after her, Kaylee and Simon’s relationship – and used the movie to tie them up. I’m left with the feeling that he’s saying “Okay, **now** I’m done, and can move on.” Well, yes. Star Wars stood alone pretty well, too. But TESB was a nice addition, anyway, and we can hope with some degree of confidence that Joss won’t succumb to merchandising tie-ins and Ewoks. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did the Alliance whack Badger? I don’t think Badger ever “sheltered” Mal & Co.; he just used them on occasional jobs. > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > I’d like to work up a comprehensive review, but given all the nitpicky stuff I feel deserves address at least among the true believers it would be next door to impossible. So, I’ll just address some points, hoping you’ll just take it as read that I loved the movie: > > The Lack of Western Feel – they underplayed the western aspect. Well, obviously there was no place for horseback chases in the story. But I noticed that Mal’s braces were no longer Civil War era style, with buttons outside the pants, but were these thick rubbery things that clipped onto plastic looking things on the pants. There was also no fiddle music. They did have some western-style dialogue, but this will surely seem strange to an audience given no other clue about the way genre is being played with in the series. The music in several spots definitely had a western theme, as if you’d take western music and turn it “classical” > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > Miranda – The planet is in extreme orbit, which will help hide it, though it provokes questions about how it manages to get enough sunlight. But I get the impression that what’s really hiding it is that nobody wants to go through Reaver territory. Since it moves in an orbit like any other planet, this would have to mean that the Reaver territory rings the solar system. But if the Reavers are only one tenth of one percent of 30 million, that’s a lot of territory to cover. Plus, how did people just lie down and stop caring when there were these Reavers being born among them? Also, I had the impression that Joss was trying to capture the feel of 70’s sci-fi cinema when he filmed this part. Er, no. The Reavers hang around Miranda, which moves, so their territory moves with it. As Miranda’s orbit approaches another planet’s orbit, travel time drops sufficiently to let the Reavers pillage and plunder (and fill the larder) by sacking the settlements and ships in the outer planets. Which is why they’re less ubiquitous and so few people see or hear of them. And, the Reavers weren’t “born;” they’re the portion of the population who didn’t just lay down and die from lack of caring. With 30,000,000 people on the planet, and approximately 30,000 of them now Reavers, that still leaves 29,970,000 dead people for them to munch on for a while, _if they ate dead people._ But it’s established that Reavers like their food fresh, squirming, and screaming. > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > The Reavers – We only ever see them when they’re berzerking, but clearly they’re doing a great deal of organizing and logistics, which must be difficult to organize after you’ve stapled your lips back. They are supposed to be hyper aggressive, which doesn’t explain anything. Like the zombies in 28 days later, they do not tear their own kind apart, which you would expect from sheer aggression. They also engage in organized behavior designed to create more of their kind. I buy it for the sake of the plot, but I don’t buy that aggression is all there is to it. There is still a great mystery here. Well, psychotic doesn’t necessarily equal “totally beserk, unable to function at a higher level.” Just look at serial killers and mass murderers, who are able to elude capture for years, decades even, through careful planning and “cover” identities, and still commit heinous crimes (including abducting and eating people; do you think Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims just rolled over without a fight?) > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > Firefly/Serenity Continuity – That Mal considered the Tams part of his crew was established at least twice that I can immediately call to mind. At the beginning of the movie, he suddenly doesn’t, and we don’t know why. As has been pointed out before, it was _Simon_ who was so keen on leaving, and taking River with him, as Mal now wanted to start using River’s abilities to further his crew’s abilities. Her abilities were partially established in _Objects in Space_. > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > It might be because he doesn’t have Book and Inara on board, as some have said, and has turned into Captain Mean Old Crankypants. It coud also be (as established early in the movie) that times were tough, the ship was falling apart, the pantry was bare, and it was largely due to their having to duck the Alliance more and more to keep the Tam’s safe. Time has passed since the last episode, and things were getting worse for the crew, work-wise. > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > We know from the commentaries that Joss Whedon had wanted Mal to be a more bitter character in the series and then grow into a softer one as the series developed, but the network wouldn’t let him, and it seems like he was trying to retroactively squeeze it into the movie. But it’s a shame to have to understand a story based on some fact external to the story. Not at all. Again, the opening establishes that “times are tough,” which easily explains why someone could be a little cranky. > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > Assorted Nitpicks – The incriminating evidence can only be broadcast from one place? Yeah, right. No. Mr. Universe just had the ability to broadcast it everywhere, at once. > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > It conveniently turns out that a crucial nerve cluster has been moved in Mal’s back, but he knows to play possom when it’s hit? Um, maybe. If it’s a well-known maneuver. Mal’s not some schmuck off the street; he’s an experienced combat veteran, skilled in violence (maybe not so much in the hand-to-hand area). > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > In a world in which it’s possible to hide an entire planet, the feed from a tavern’s two-way vidscreen run by criminals who conduct business there can be collected far, far away? No. Never heard of the National Security Agency? And it’s here in the “land of the free.” Not the all-pervasive, intrusive Alliance. > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > The Alliance, who for months hasn’t been able to get a bead on The Tams all of the sudden knows all of Serenity’s hideouts? Suspect at best. Science Fiction Staple: evil corporation under govt. contract creates nastiness, which escapes. Corporate hitters (Hands of Blue) go after nastiness to recover it before govt. finds out. Govt. finds out, sends super assasin (with full government support) after nastiness. Hilarity ensues. > [@Aesiron](#): > > From an enlisted grunt to a midrange officer? Not likely. > > Yes, battlefield promotions happen but 1) they’re usually withdrawn once the war is over and 2) he was a Sergeant which is an enlisted rank. Battlefield promotions aren’t going to make an E5 an O3 no matter how good a soldier they are. > > They deigned to recognize his rank in the first place and it’s still very improbable an enlisted man – someone who signed up at a recruiter’s office – would be promoted to a commissioned officer which requires extensive schooling and training. If he had been promoted, he would have been a Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, or Master Sergeant, not a Captain. In who’s army? Yours? Mine? A fictional rebel militia in the 26th century? Remember: The Operative was reading an Alliance Intelligence dosier about Mal, and it was established in the series that Mal routinely took command once officers died, and issued orders in their name (_Serenity, pt. 1_ and _The Message_), so some confusion/error on the Aliance’s part might be understandable. Also: one of my First Sergeants at Ft. Hood _was_ battlefield promoted in Vietnam from Platoon Sergeant (the rank later turned into Sergeant Fist Class) up to Captain, given command of an infantry company, then later promoted to Major and made battalion XO, before being reduced after the war back to Master Sergeant. His was a National Guard unit. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Big implausibility that I’m surprised no one has mentioned: > > 30 Million people die on a planet and no one even knows about it? These people would’ve had families, friends, business contacts… there would’ve been no way to cover up their deaths without some sort of explanation. Of course, you could say that the terraforming system went whacko and poisoned them all, but people would remember a tragedy on that scale. No one would be saying “Miranda, huh?” It has been mentioned, but kinda in passing, as it were. The Alliance is about control. Since the war ended, they control everything; official records; newsfeeds (information), everything. Anyone who went to Miranda thinking they were going to score some quick salvage from a failed colony were eaten by Reavers. And no one else would go there anyway, since it was a failed colony. And having nasty boogeymen (Reavers) hitting outer colonies serves the Alliance’s purpose in driving more and more outer colonies in seeking Alliance protection, perhaps even direct Alliance control. > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > On the other hand, Simon’s comment, “Am I talking to Miranda now?” was pretty stupid in that context. Well, it’s not like Miranda isn’t a readily recognizable women’s name. There’s nothing at that point in the movie to suggest she’s referring to the failed colony Miranda. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > How does Mal retain an edge that makes him remain the captain, if he’s always having to ask her if she’s got a better plan, or has a bad feeling or whatever? And one part of IQ is pure processing speed, you figure things out faster. So there there are in the middle of one of those reversals, like a betrayal: River should logically figure it out first, and be the first to know what to do to counteract it, and start doing it – taking time to explain it all to the Mal or the others first might be deadly, but OTOH, having a one othe crew preempt the Captain’s decision-maker status is a bad, bad thing. Not necessarily; high intelligence doesn’t necessarily equate to any particular perspicacity at divining human motivations. Mal can take her along on “business deals,” and she sits there “reading” the other side, telling Mal when they’re lying and planning to cheat them, or that they’re honest. This in no way undermines Mal’s authority, and might actually eventually work to their benefit once word gets around that you can’t betray Malcolm Reynolds. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Even if they restrain her a bit, logically she should edge into Zoe’s position of chief advisor/backup to Mal. Mal and Zoe have _history._ They’ve bled together for a cause they both believe in. They’ve buried too many friends and comrades along the way, sacrificed to that cause. River is not going to replace that. At best, she’ll give the crew an inside edge in their criminal dealings. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > And now she has surpasses Jayne, too. Sure, he has simple physical strength on her (I assume) but she’s proved to be a hundred times his match at hand-to-hand combat AND is a scarily accurate shooter. What’s left for Jayne to contribute, except humping containers in the cargo hold? No, she doesn’t. She got the better of him once, while in zombie-combat mode, _while he was trying to restrain her._ If Jayne was trying to take her out, she’d be dead little River on the floor of that tavern. And Jayne has something River doesn’t: intimidating presence. Jayne can look mean at opponents and make them think twice. If River tried to pull off intimidating against hardened criminals, she might just precipitate a fight, as no big, tough, bad guy would willingly back down from a 90 lb. girl. As far as getting the drop on Jayne in the pantry with the Big Damned Can, she “read” his intentions and was laying in ambush for him; he just failed to look up quick enough; this is perfectly “in character” for Jayne, who isn’t the most thorough of thinkers. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > And at the end it’s implied that she is going to learn piloting at super-fast speed. So much for Wash’s role, if he hadn’t died. She was sitting in the co-pilot’s seat, learning from Mal, who was now in Wash’s traditional seat. Her “prodigy”-ness, having been established, might mean she learns fast, but even if Wash hadn’t died, I don’t see River taking his role from him. It’s Wash’s established job to fly Serenity, and high-IQ and natural talent doesn’t supplant hard-earned experience. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/325 "2005-10-04T19:26:06Z")
You would think more people would know to leave 20th/21st Century preconceptions, garnered from having lived mostly in open, liberal democracies, at the door when viewing a ficticious, futuristic society. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/326 "2005-10-04T20:27:37Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > The rewrite of the River rescue did bother me. In the rescue scene Simon seemed to know a lot about River’s condition, and finds out yet more from the scientist. Yet Simon seemed clueless about her condition in the first few episodes of the TV series. No, he was never really clueless about her condition. In those early episodes, he could have known all along that she’s some sort of human weapon without realizing what that really meant. What he’s clueless about is what eactly they did to her and how to reverse it–which is, of course, his primary concern. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/327 "2005-10-04T20:28:34Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > They deigned to recognize his rank in the first place and it’s still very improbable an enlisted man – someone who signed up at a recruiter’s office – would be promoted to a commissioned officer which requires extensive schooling and training. If he had been promoted, he would have been a Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, or Master Sergeant, not a Captain. **Bryan Ekers** and **Merijeek** have it right. You guys are missing the critically obvious fact here. Malcolm Reynolds purchased _Serenity_. He owns her, and he pays the crew to fly her. He didn’t get promoted from (Browncoat) Sergeant to (Browncoat) Captain – he retired from Browncoat service and became a (Merchant Marine / Commercial) Captain. I would only consider this a mistake if the on-screen computer dossier actually uses rank-grades (e.g. O-3 or E-5). The Alliance personnel system would have his pilot’s license on file, and refer to him as “Captain” just like you would refer to a modern commercial ship’s captain by his title. They would have no reason to recognize his Browncoat rank, because to the Alliance that is an illegitimate title. To suggest that the Operative is looking through Browncoat computer records implies that the Browncoats had time to organize a giant personnel database so that their rebellion could be easily identified by law enforcement. They were foolish, but not _that_ foolish. As for **Aesiron** ’s contention that sergeants don’t get promoted to captains, I serve in the USAF and have worked with at least seven officers who have made captain by now, each of whom started off as a sergeant. It happens plenty, even in peacetime. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/328 "2005-10-04T21:25:31Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > To suggest that the Operative is looking through Browncoat computer records implies that the Browncoats had time to organize a giant personnel database so that their rebellion could be easily identified by law enforcement. It was a full-blown war, not a law-enforcement matter, until the Alliance broke the back of the Independent side. The Browncoats were fielding forces large enough that they needed to create lots of records to conduct basic logistics, and presumably the Alliance ended up capturing some of them and making appropriate notations in people’s post-war files. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/329 "2005-10-04T21:57:31Z")
And we become part of [common pop culture](http://www.overduemedia.com/archive.aspx?strip=20051004). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/330 "2005-10-05T00:06:16Z")
Just cause they know what River can do doesn’t mean she’s not still nuts. I can see her being unstable / plausibly depowered if they make a sequel (or with luck, another series). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/331 "2005-10-05T00:34:05Z")
I know we’re sort of off the subject now, but I agree with **Aesiron** about Wash’s death. It didn’t make sense coming where it did. If he had died while the ship was sliding across the hangar floor, that would have worked. Once it touched ground, the pilot was not essential for saving the rest of the crew, but they weren’t in the clear yet. As it is, though, the ship comes to a rest, everything stops moving, and all of a sudden there’s this spike? Where did that come from? If it was part of the crash debris, why was it still flying around after everything else had settled down? If it was a Reaver grapple-harpoon, how did they get such a head start on the Reavers in the tunnels? Coming abruptly like that, it felt too much like when the DM throws a lightning bolt to stop the players doing what he doesn’t want them to. On the subject of Reavers, I think that it’s quite plausible that there’s more than one way to become a Reaver. What we saw in “Bushwhacked” is obviously one way to become a Reaver, since the poor schmuck did, in fact, become a Reaver. But that’s not yet a complete explanation, since it leaves open the question of how the Reavers originated. That’s what the movie explained. I didn’t like the change to River’s rescue. Simon is smart, methodical, and in his own way, even brave… But he’s emphatically not an action hero. It’s much more in line with his character (as presented in the series, at least) to hire others to do the action-hero part, and he really is clueless in the series as to what’s wrong with her. Remember the conversation with Book in “War Stories”? “No, the more I see of this, the more I think they had a _very_ specific purpose in what they did to her”. He didn’t even know, when he came aboard _Serenity_, that there was a purpose, much less what it might be. In regards to Kaylee, we didn’t see nearly as much of the charm in the movie. Partly that was the loss of pounds, and partly it was the lack of screen time and character development. And yes, I’m sure that the weight was her decision, but I think it’s still fair to blame Hollywood, since they’re where women get the idea that all fat is bad and losing weight is always good. Fat can be great, as long as it’s in all the right places. I will say, though, that following her line about “Nothing 'twixt my nethers what wasn’t run on batteries”, I wholeheartedly agreed with Jayne’s comment. Zoe being pregnant would, I think, be a good possibility. She can’t know it at the climactic battle, but if the series gets restarted, I can see an early episode starting with her checking the little color-change strip, or maybe with Simon telling her. Finally, on a point not already mentioned by others (amazing, this far into a thread): I know that every action movie must have a sequence where one of the main characters gets all macho and butched-up… But that look just did not suit _Serenity_. I was very glad to see her getting re-painted at the end. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/332 "2005-10-05T00:37:21Z")
I’d never seen the show, and had no clue what to expect. In all, an excellent movie; I’ll make a point to catch the series. One question/nitpick (and forgive me if this has already been addressed)- In the scene when Mal comes to see Inara and is trapped- How many Buddhist monasteries routinely stock flash-bombs disguised as sticks of incense? ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/333 "2005-10-05T00:51:35Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > One question/nitpick (and forgive me if this has already been addressed)- In the scene when Mal comes to see Inara and is trapped- How many Buddhist monasteries routinely stock flash-bombs disguised as sticks of incense? I thought Mal palmed it off to her after praying to Buddha-Claus. ---
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/334 "2005-10-05T00:54:39Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Was there an explanation of why the Serenity crew wasn’t affected by the pacifying agent? Shouldn’t it still be in Miranda’s atmosphere? It was an airborn agent that had 12 years and an entire planet to disperse over. No problemo. Though on reaver ships, depending on how the Pax works, concentration could still be at a fairly high level. So when they break into a ship, the crew gets infected. Reavers keep the victims alive to see if any go crazy and fight back like mad, then recruit them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/335 "2005-10-05T01:05:05Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Given the series didn’t “date stamp” the episodes, I’d figure about 4 to 6 months passed during the series, and about another 4 to 6 passed between Objects In Space and Serenity Except that at the beginning of _Serenity_, either Mal or Jayne says Simon and River have been with them for eight months. I’m with you on the 4-6 month guesstimate for the series, which would leave 2-4 months between “Objects in Space” and _Serenity_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/336 "2005-10-05T01:32:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I know we’re sort of off the subject now, but I agree with **Aesiron** about Wash’s death. It didn’t make sense coming where it did. If he had died while the ship was sliding across the hangar floor, that would have worked. Once it touched ground, the pilot was not essential for saving the rest of the crew, but they weren’t in the clear yet. As it is, though, the ship comes to a rest, everything stops moving, and all of a sudden there’s this spike? Where did that come from? If it was part of the crash debris, why was it still flying around after everything else had settled down? If it was a Reaver grapple-harpoon, how did they get such a head start on the Reavers in the tunnels? Coming abruptly like that, it felt too much like when the DM throws a lightning bolt to stop the players doing what he doesn’t want them to. It was a Reaver harpoon. There’s a shot right afterwards, IIRC, where you can see one of the ships hovering over the Serenity, attached to it with a big ol’ chain. As for how our heros got such a headstart over the Reavers, simple: they were already on the ground, they knew exactly where they were going, and they could lock doors behind them as they ran. And I still say that killing Wash in the pilot seat while Serenity is still moving would have been vastly more disrespectful to the character. And a lot lamer. Instead of being killed dramatically by the most feared and deadly savages in the solar system, you think he should go out like Larry the Crash Test Dummy? Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/337 "2005-10-05T02:49:22Z")
Just returned from seeing it again. To address some points we have been discussing: The Reavers were slowed down by the grenades Jayne remembered this time. The file says “Captain - 57th Volunteers.” Make of that what you will. Wash’s death was perfect. It wasn’t a Buddhist monastery, it was a Companion Training Center. Companions are prepared for all sorts of eventualities. Case in point - Inara is rather adept at hand to hand combat. The Operative was just better. But Inara was sneakier. Maybe she learned that from Mal. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/338 "2005-10-05T03:09:40Z")
> [@](#): > > And I still say that killing Wash in the pilot seat while Serenity is still moving would have been vastly more disrespectful to the character. And a lot lamer. Instead of being killed dramatically by the most feared and deadly savages in the solar system, you think he should go out like Larry the Crash Test Dummy? Ugh. OK, then, so have him get caught by them personally, and the crew is unable to fight them off, followed by the mercy bullet others have recommended. As it was, it wasn’t at all clear that he was killed by the deadly savages, and he sure wasn’t killed savagely. But even Larry the Crash Test Dummy would have been preferable to the falling cartoon anvil that did get him. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/339 "2005-10-05T03:21:20Z")
Wasn’t clear? A harpoon flies through the window, transfixing Wash. Zoe goes to him, and Mal throws her to the floor as a half-dozen more harpoons fly through the cockpit. Cut to hovering Reaver ship overhead. How much more clear do you _want_? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/340 "2005-10-05T03:25:17Z")
I dunno… Dying instantly in the pilot’s seat, having just delivered his crew safely to the ground and delivered a final ‘Washism’… Hard to imagine a better, more respectful way for Wash to go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=18)