# Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/361 "2005-10-05T18:27:49Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I think they were shooting the ship, and not intentionally targeting its occupants. Agreed. It makes sense, too. Now, Serenity cannot leave (not that it was any condition to leave anyway). ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/362 "2005-10-05T18:28:21Z")
> [@brightpenny](#): > > suddenly some backwater expression is inserted into otherwise normal speech. It just sounds phoney, and I can’t tell if it’s intentional or not. I think I’d enjoy the movie more if I knew it whether it was bad acting/scripting, or a playful nod to the tropes of westerns, or both. I think it’s deliberately stylized. I certainly don’t think it’s “bad” in the sense of “someone tried to write natural sounding dialog, and failed, and came out with this”. ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/363 "2005-10-05T18:53:17Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > YOu souns like you’re writing a Harlequin. > Take a pill or something. 🙂 Moi? Nah. That was the style of the scene. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/364 "2005-10-05T19:49:25Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > YOu souns like you’re writing a Harlequin. > Take a pill or something. 🙂 That’s because that scene was total girly-porn. If I take two pills, can I call Dr. Tam in the morning? 😃 MrrrWowrrrr… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/365 "2005-10-05T19:50:18Z")
> [@](#): > > You’re acting like it came out of nowhere. At that point in the movie, it had been established that the Reavers use giant grapples to board other ships. It’s established that Reavers use small harpoons against human-sized targets (Jayne got one through the leg, on the Mule), but against ships, they use magnetic grapplers. And maybe I blinked, but I didn’t see any more spikes coming through the windshield, nor a Reaver ship tethered to Serenity. I, too, was somewhat surprised by how built Simon turned out to be, once he took his shirt off. I mean, he’s a doctor, so you’d expect him to take care of his health, but he still seems rather scrawny, when fully-clothed. Then again, he wasn’t the main focus of my attention in that scene. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/366 "2005-10-05T19:58:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s established that Reavers use small harpoons against human-sized targets (Jayne got one through the leg, on the Mule), but against ships, they use magnetic grapplers. And maybe I blinked, but I didn’t see any more spikes coming through the windshield, nor a Reaver ship tethered to Serenity. Definitely more spikes came through. My perception of it was that the dude who was on grappling-hook duty got a little trigger happy, saw a chance to take a shot, and said, “RRRRRAAAAAAAUUUUGHGGHGHGGH!” or whatever Reavers say. Perfectly, within the confines of the universe, plausible to me. Yeah, they were shown using magnetic grapplers, but remember that the harpoon they used on Jane was from a spaceship. It may’ve been designed for antipersonnel fighting, or it may have been used to attach an attacking ship to a salvage job, or to attach to another ship in space. My understanding of the Reavers is that they use whatever weapons are at hand, and they don’t really do much in the way of complicated weapon manufacturing. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/367 "2005-10-05T20:01:50Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Gosh, how is anyone supposed to figure out what happened? :rolleyes: By all the other details that have been covered ad nauseum in this thread. :rolleyes: yourself. **ExTank** ’s comment makes sense. > [@Chronos](#): > > And maybe I blinked, but I didn’t see any more spikes coming through the windshield, As Zoe was trying to get Wash’s sorpse out of the driver’s seat, Mal knocked her to the ground to save her (and him) from at least one other harpoon/grapple/big pointy stick. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/368 "2005-10-05T20:02:27Z")
Is it too much to ask that _Serenity 2_ be rated R? My wife has a serious jones for Jayne, and I have a similar venereal twitching for Inara and Plumper-Kaylee. Seems like it wouldn’t be hard to write in a scene set in a hot tub, somehow… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/369 "2005-10-05T20:05:20Z")
> [@brightpenny](#): > > The dialog is stupid/funny in kind of a comic book way. The language sounds clearly articulated until a cowboy-style expression is used - the inconsistency is pretty jarring. Do you know what I mean? Like, all the _ing_’s are pronounced clearly, instead of\* in’\*, like one would expect. Why would one expect that? These are the descendants of interplanetary colonists some 500-600 years in the future, with a major Chinese cultural and linguistic influence. Note that the characters more likely to engage in oddball (by our standards) grammar are Mal, Kaylee and Jayne, who are clearly the ones with the least amount of formal education. Book, Simon and Inara, by contrast, are from the educated classes, and speak quite regular (again, by our standards) English. Ever seen _Clockwork Orange_? Man, they sure talk real funny, like they’s on dope or sumpin’. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/370 "2005-10-05T20:09:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s established that Reavers use small harpoons against human-sized targets (Jayne got one through the leg, on the Mule), but against ships, they use magnetic grapplers. And maybe I blinked, but I didn’t see any more spikes coming through the windshield, nor a Reaver ship tethered to Serenity. Actually, it’s established that _one_ Reaver ship uses a magnetic grappler, and the rest seem to use big harpoons. You’ll note towards the end of the movie there’s various scenes of Reaver ships using Harpoons, both in orbit over Miranda (We see two Reaver ships tearing a third ship apart) and against the PeaceKeeper… er… Alliance Fleet later on. Also, I do recall extra harpoons flying through the windsheild, and immediately after they leave the ship, you can see the Reaver ship that had been persuing them hovering above Serenity with the grappler chains attached. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/371 "2005-10-05T20:14:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s established that Reavers use small harpoons against human-sized targets (Jayne got one through the leg, on the Mule), but against ships, they use magnetic grapplers. And maybe I blinked, but I didn’t see any more spikes coming through the windshield, nor a Reaver ship tethered to Serenity. Oh, I dunno. When _Serenity_ is creeping through the Reaver fleet on the way to Miranda, two Reaver ships are seen tearing a third ship in half. Also, when they run like hell to Mr. Universe’s planet, at least one Reaver ship can be seen tethering (and then rapidly spinning around) a snagged Alliance ship. This _might_ be accomplished with magnetic grapplers, but it looks like the Reavers don’t care if the tethering damages the target, so why not a hull-piercing harpoon? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/372 "2005-10-05T21:20:34Z")
Certainly, we’ve seen Reaver ships tethered to other ships, but I don’t think that the attachment method is clear in any of those cases. And the harpoon that got Jayne wasn’t really comparable to the one that got Wash; the thing that impaled Wash was far bigger than the thing that went through Jayne’s leg. If there were shots of more harpoons through the window, and of a Reaver subsequently tethered to Serenity, then I guess I largely retract my criticism. It’s just that, when I was watching the movie, I didn’t notice those details (like I said, maybe I blinked or something), so it detracted from the movie for me. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/373 "2005-10-05T21:41:36Z")
Well, **Chronos** , you know what that means. You will just have to go see it again _this_ weekend! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/374 "2005-10-05T21:57:02Z")
With the number of truly sucky sequels following adequate to very good movies, why do so many of you seem expect a brilliant _Serenty II_? Let’s just thank Og for this one and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/375 "2005-10-05T22:07:55Z")
> [@brownie55](#): > > With the number of truly sucky sequels following adequate to very good movies, why do so many of you seem expect a brilliant _Serenty II_? Let’s just thank Og for this one and move on. Well, thanks for the advice, Captain Bringdown, but the second _Star Trek_, _Alien_, _Terminator_ and _Mad Max_ movies were all improvements over their originals (though I expect there’s some debate, especially, on _Aliens_) so why are you trying to write off a movie that won’t even go into preproduction for months, assuming it even does? Wouldn’t careful optimism be a less depressing tack? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/376 "2005-10-05T22:12:07Z")
> [@brownie55](#): > > With the number of truly sucky sequels following adequate to very good movies, why do so many of you seem expect a brilliant _Serenty II_? Let’s just thank Og for this one and move on. Well, we seem to have had pretty good luck with sequels in the last couple years. _X-Men II_ was better than _X-Men_, _Spiderman II_ was better than _Spiderman_, _Revenge of the Sith_ was better than _Attack of the Clones_ (not a difficult feat by any means, but still…), the _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy maintained a consistent level of quality (personally, my favorite was the first one, but it’s a matter of minute degree). I’m willing to take a gamble on a _Serenity II_. If it sucks, it can just join the long line of Sequels Which We Pretend Don’t Exsist. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/377 "2005-10-05T23:09:10Z")
> [@Troy McClure SF](#): > > By all the other details that have been covered ad nauseum in this thread. :rolleyes: yourself. **ExTank** ’s comment makes sense. Umm…mine was sarcasm. So double :rolleyes: on you! -Joe, captain rippedpants ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/378 "2005-10-05T23:11:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, we seem to have had pretty good luck with sequels in the last couple years. _X-Men II_ was better than _X-Men_, _Spiderman II_ was better than _Spiderman_, _Revenge of the Sith_ was better than _Attack of the Clones_ (not a difficult feat by any means, but still…), the _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy maintained a consistent level of quality (personally, my favorite was the first one, but it’s a matter of minute degree). I’m willing to take a gamble on a _Serenity II_. If it sucks, it can just join the long line of Sequels Which We Pretend Don’t Exsist. Not to mention that of the sequels **Miller** mentioned, the main creative forces remained intact. _Spider-Man_ kept Raimi at the helm, and though the writers changed, it was arguably an improvement (depending on what you think of Chabon); _X-Men_ kept Singer and Hayter; and so on. And there’s no way in hell, I would imagine, Joss would let anyone else write or direct _Serenity 2_, so why not be optimistic? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/379 "2005-10-06T00:52:50Z")
> [@brownie55](#): > > With the number of truly sucky sequels following adequate to very good movies, why do so many of you seem expect a brilliant _Serenty II_? Let’s just thank Og for this one and move on. Um, _Serenity_ itself is already a sequel of sorts to _Firefly_. So we know Joss can do sequels. I have every reason to expect a sequel to be just as good as this movie. Joss has already said he has numerous stories on file that he planned to tell during the series, and that he’d love to make movies out of some of them. Whedon’s style lends itself to serialization. He tells stories about characters, not fancy technology or universe destruction. The problem with many Sci-fi sequels is that the original movie had a world-changing plot of some sort. Where do you go for a sequel when the first movie has the protagonists saving the universe? But with Whedon, it’s all about the characters. How about a light-hearted ‘caper’ sequel? Whedon’s brilliant with those. Some of the best episodes of Firefly were the funniest ones. He could do a straight-up comedy for Serenity II, much like Star Trek IV lightened the tone for that series. Or he could do a tense psychological thriller with the same characters. The Firefly episodes were of many different styles, and all uniformly good. Joss could write a dozen Serenity sequels and not run out of ideas. Hell, I’ll bet he could pull off a Serenity musical - he managed it with Buffy, and it was one of the best episodes from what I hear tell. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/380 "2005-10-06T00:57:52Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Why would one expect that? These are the descendants of interplanetary colonists some 500-600 years in the future, with a major Chinese cultural and linguistic influence. Note that the characters more likely to engage in oddball (by our standards) grammar are Mal, Kaylee and Jayne, who are clearly the ones with the least amount of formal education. Book, Simon and Inara, by contrast, are from the educated classes, and speak quite regular (again, by our standards) English. > > Ever seen _Clockwork Orange_? Man, they sure talk real funny, like they’s on dope or sumpin’. When your characters speak a new dialect, it gives a lot of room for the writer to write great prose, and Whedon takes advantage of that. If you take the dialog in Firefly or Serenity apart and really listen to it, some of it is downright poetic in a way that would be almost impossible to pull off if the characters spoke straight English. It would sound stilted. The same is true of _Deadwood_. The prose is almost Shakespearean, and the use of ‘old language’ gives the writers so much creative freedom with the dialog that they can rise to heights of eloquence that are hard to achieve otherwise. The language is one of the best parts of the Firefly 'verse. It’s understandable but unique, and really improves the flavor of the stories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=20)