# Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/381 "2005-10-06T00:59:34Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Joss could write a dozen Serenity sequels and not run out of ideas. Hell, I’ll bet he could pull off a Serenity musical - he managed it with Buffy, and it was one of the best episodes from what I hear tell. “From what I hear tell?” 😕 **Sam** , do you want me to lend you my DVDs? _Once More, With Feeling_ must be seen to be believed. Not a half-bad musical seeing as how only two of the cast could really sing. (And they get a duet!) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/382 "2005-10-06T01:14:03Z")
I’ve seen about four episodes of Buffy, and it’s something I keep meaning to watch, but the problems I have are A) the local video stores don’t have the first season for rent, and B) the show is in 4:3 aspect ratio, which my projector can’t do very well. I have a 16:9 screen and an old projector that doesn’t zoom, so I try to avoid 4:3 material when possible. I heard the entire Buffy series is coming out in one humongous box set for a reasonable price, so I thought I might pick that up when it’s available. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/383 "2005-10-06T01:37:45Z")
$130 for 140 hours of television. [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000AQ68RI/ref=wl\_it\_dp/103-7343610-8067064?\_encoding=UTF8&coliid=IN3PJ0F9VN26T&v=glance&colid=9K844SFD60G1](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000AQ68RI/ref=wl_it_dp/103-7343610-8067064?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=IN3PJ0F9VN26T&v=glance&colid=9K844SFD60G1) ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/384 "2005-10-06T01:38:50Z")
$130 for 140 hours of television: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000AQ68RI/ref=wl\_it\_dp/103-7343610-8067064?\_encoding=UTF8&coliid=IN3PJ0F9VN26T&v=glance&colid=9K844SFD60G1](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000AQ68RI/ref=wl_it_dp/103-7343610-8067064?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=IN3PJ0F9VN26T&v=glance&colid=9K844SFD60G1) My dad’s sending me a gift card sometime in the next week or two so that I can preorder it for my Christmas present for this year. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/385 "2005-10-06T14:01:03Z")
> [@brownie55](#): > > With the number of truly sucky sequels following adequate to very good movies, why do so many of you seem expect a brilliant _Serenty II_? Let’s just thank Og for this one and move on. In addition to what’s been said above, I also think there is a lot of margin there. There is room for a second Seren **i** ty movie to be much worse than the first, but still be better than most movies out there. Not that I wouldn’t prefer (and expect) a second to be just as good as this one, just sayin’… ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/386 "2005-10-06T14:49:50Z")
People at work were talking about how good Serenity is. Fully half the people that I was on with last night had seen it. And we’re talking middle aged Nurses here. I think it’ll be just fine $$ wise :). ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/387 "2005-10-06T14:56:13Z")
> [@NE Texan](#): > > In addition to what’s been said above, I also think there is a lot of margin there. There is room for a second Seren **i** ty movie to be much worse than the first, but still be better than most movies out there. > > Not that I wouldn’t prefer (and expect) a second to be just as good as this one, just sayin’… Thanks for all the replies, I have become optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/388 "2005-10-06T19:49:32Z")
My wishes for a sequel would require the Blue Hands guys, Mal and Inara kanoodling, and a nekkid, greasy Kaylee working on big machinery. A plot isn’t necessary! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/389 "2005-10-06T20:02:12Z")
**silenus** , the blue hand guys showed up in the comic book. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/390 "2005-10-06T20:04:56Z")
I know they did. But they didn’t **do** anything, much. I want more background as to their agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/391 "2005-10-06T20:04:56Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > My wishes for a sequel would require the Blue Hands guys, Mal and Inara kanoodling, and a nekkid, greasy Kaylee working on big machinery. A plot isn’t necessary! 😃 I’m usually pretty open minded, but a four-way between Mal, Inara, and the blue hand guys? That’s just sick. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/392 "2005-10-06T20:07:28Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > My wishes for a sequel would require the Blue Hands guys, Don’t need that. > [@](#): > > Mal and Inara kanoodling, Don’t need that. > [@](#): > > and a nekkid, greasy Kaylee working on big machinery. Don’t _need_ that, but I damn well want it in there (preferably the series Kaylee). Needed is a nekked Zoe kicking ass _Heavy Metal_ style. Hell, then you don’t need Whedon to actually write anything; that’s can be the whole movie. I sure am glad Ms. D\_Odds does not read this board ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/393 "2005-10-06T20:11:26Z")
Speaking of the comic, [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6649914&postcount=10) is a post where I run down the plot for those who didn’t read it. It’s no great shakes. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/394 "2005-10-06T20:31:39Z")
> [@brightpenny](#): > > For me, the most shocking moment of all was the revelation of the bland doctor’s wet and muscular torso, and his intense masculinity as he grabbed her by the waist and pulled her toward him. I was so surprised at his unexpected hotness, that I didn’t get nearly enough time to savor his gorgeousness. There is never enough shirtless Simon. Not ever. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/395 "2005-10-06T20:55:25Z")
> [@Orual](#): > > There is never enough shirtless Simon. Not ever. Indeed. _goes off to watch Objects in Space_ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/396 "2005-10-06T21:12:57Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > Indeed. I bet Simon got beat up a lot in school. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/397 "2005-10-07T02:56:31Z")
Teah, but I bet he was the first one in his class to get laid, too. That “who, me, I don’t know what to do” act is just that…an act. Lousy bastid gets to get nekkid with Kaylee… ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/398 "2005-10-07T06:52:12Z")
OK, here is a more full-bodied, richer response, with a note of sarcasm to tie it all together. > [@CandidGamera](#): > > Wash’s death was an instant mood-killer - it robbed the film of any entertainment value for me, for one. While it raised the idea that other main characters might die, I didn’t really care anymore. And it was a hokey device one can see in every teeny-slasher movie, ever. “We’re safe!” _crunch_/_slice_ “Oh no, just when we thought we were safe, one of the best-liked characters died!” Yeah, but in a slasher movie you don’t _really_ care that much about anyone, do you? You go in expecting that a bunch of them are gonna die horribly, and they’re usually stereotyped characters anyway - the jock, the cheerleader, the rich bitch, the token black dude, whatever. And in an action movie, you expect that the Obvious Hero Character with the Obvious Character Hook will survive, even if some of the Obvious Sidekick Characters with the Obvious Lack of Backstory get killed. Problem is, in Serenity there aren’t any of those characters. They’re all integral parts of the crew, and they all have more to them than can fit in a single sentence - well, maybe not Jayne. No, I take that back. Even Jayne has more complexity than you might get at first glance. > [@Sengkelat](#): > > Wash getting killed. It was cheap. It didn’t heighten the tension for me, it lessened it. If anyone can die at any time, I’d better not get too attached. And I was very attached to Wash. I guess you better not talk to your family, or have any friends or pets either. You never know when they might die and make you feel like crap because you miss them. Bastards. > [@](#): > > Jayne getting beat up by a 110 lb. girl. Unlike Wash, I’m already tired of hearing about it. It smacked of Star Trek, where every bad guy had to beat up Worf to show how badass the bad guy was…but in reality it just made Worf look like a loser. Same effect here. Nope. Jayne was seen kicking some ass in this movie, and lots of ass in the series. As much as I like Worf, his ass kicker/ass kickee ratio is depressingly low. Plenty of enemies toss him around all over the damn ship like a wad of paper. Besides, by the end of the movie River has annihilated a horde of Reavers in melee combat. You can take issue with the plausibility of that if you want, but you can’t really expect one dude to have much of a chance against her. > [@RickJay](#): > > If you step way back, and look at the forest instead of the trees, the movie’s primary weakness is its absolute by-the-numbers formulaic plot. It was the same damn story we’ve seen in a hundred other movies, told the same way; snappy, irony-filled dialogue doesn’t make up for that. Just a few too many really tiresome cliches. If you step far enough back, all stories are variations on only a small number of basic plots. So what? Do you not read Fahrenheit 451 because it’s just another book about an oppresive government and an apathetic society? Kurosawa’s Throne of Blood is nothing more than a lame ripoff of Shakespeare’s MacBeth, which itself is merely one of myriad tales of betrayal and murder. Yawn. And speaking of forests, why should people want to go hiking in different forests anyway? I mean, you’ve seen one tree, you’ve seen them all, right? They’re pretty indistinguishible from orbit. So yeah, Firefly and Serenity don’t break a lot of ground in the plot department, but that’s not why we love them. The plot is at least coherent, which is more than you can say about a lot of movies these days. Anyway, it’s all about the characters. Book’s death scene was cliched as far as delivering a last speech, but name one other movie where the director makes you laugh on purpose _twice_ and feel sad at the same time. > [@John Mace](#): > > I may try to catch a few episodes on SciFi channel. But I can’t see it being anywhere near the quality of the new “Battlestar Gallactica”. I’d take almost any random episode in that TV series over “Serenity” any day. I’ve seen all of both series, and Firefly is definitely superior. I like Battlestar, but I have some serious problems with it. Without spoiling too much for people who haven’t seen it, I’ll just say that the Caprica storyline from the first season was very weak, the new developments in this season’s last episode were interesting but somewhat poorly handled, and Baltar is becoming increasingly annoying and lame. > [@D\_Odds](#): > > I wasn’t terribly impressed with “The Assassin” character, and felt the actor did the best he could with a poorly written part. How do you figure? He was an antagonist who truly believed he was serving the greater good of society. Most movie bad guys just want power, money, and/or chicks, and blow shit up so they can get it. I think the Operative was deluding himself about serving the greater good even before we knew what the big secret was, but it made for a much more interesting character. Serenity is one of the finest science fiction movies I’ve seen in a long, long time. The science was a bit softer than I would have liked, but the rest was so awesome I can forgive that. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/399 "2005-10-07T13:00:15Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > How do you figure? He was an antagonist who truly believed he was serving the greater good of society. Most movie bad guys just want power, money, and/or chicks, and blow shit up so they can get it. I think the Operative was deluding himself about serving the greater good even before we knew what the big secret was, but it made for a much more interesting character. You liked him. You may even have entered the theater predisposed to like whatever was up there. Extrapolating from this thread, I believe there were a lot of people who did. Me, I enjoyed Firefly (on DVD only), but I let the movie stand or fall on its own merits. It was fun. It wasn’t bad, hell, it was even good action/adventure (probably because I watched the series and knew more about the crew than could normally be told in a two-hour movie). I just didn’t find the bad guy compelling. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/400 "2005-10-07T13:01:21Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > I guess you better not talk to your family, or have any friends or pets either. You never know when they might die and make you feel like crap because you miss them. Bastards. I wanted to respond to this part. Realism vs. Escapism. The Hollywood Happy Ending. Why do 99% of Hollywood’s movies end with all being right in the world once again, and if anyone likeable died, they went out in a heroic fashion? Because the audience wants it that way. So, auteurs like Whedon are brave for twisting around, and not giving the proles what they want, right? Well, that depends. The question is the motivation behind the decision. Is it done because that’s the creators’ vision, or is it done to defy the audience, or to twist their expectations? The first is a very valid motivation. The author says ‘I don’t care that it will be unpopular, my vision is that this happens.’ The second and third are poor motivation. ‘I hate the general audience and want to spite them.’ Or ‘Ha-ha, they’ll never expect… THIS!’ I can’t speculate as to Whedon’s motivation here. I have my suspicions, but there’s no good evidence in any direction. So let’s look at the pure results. What does Wash’s death achieve, other than a cheap tension-elevation? Well, tying into the quote I’ve singled out, a sense of realism, perhaps. Is this sort of realism a laudable goal? Varies by audience member, but judging by the phenomenon of the Hollywood Happy Ending, realism is unpopular. I go to the movies to be entertained. For escapism. If I want reality, it’s on the news and right outside the window, and the scriptwriter for reality is a lot better at springing surprises on people. Bad things happen, like the quoted snarky example. I have to deal with bad things that happen in reality. So when I want to be entertained, I don’t want to be reminded of ‘Horrible things happen, then you die.’ That’s not entertaining, that’s depressing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=21)