# Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/461 "2005-10-11T11:27:56Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Like the TV series, it’ll probably do only so-so in the theater, and then be a huge hit on DVD. As long as the bean counters count this then it should be good news. However I’m not sure if that means they’ll decide to go straight to dvd for a sequel or go for another tv series. At any rate, if neither happens I feel that the movie made for a good final episode. If you go for British TV at all we got the equivalent of 4 seasons worth of Red Dwarf episodes plus a really good movie so in the end I’m happy :). ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/462 "2005-10-11T13:34:12Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > It baffles me why, to tell you the truth. It’s one of the best reviewed films of the year, and it’s an action-adventure. It’s also got phenomenal word of mouth and internet buzz. Why can’t this movie find an audience? > > Like the TV series, it’ll probably do only so-so in the theater, and then be a huge hit on DVD. Damn. I agree – how can utter dreck make so much money, and something like Serenity not? :mad: It’s not like the movie is esoteric or anything. Plenty of ‘slam, bang’ action… Actually, do you suppose part of the problem is the title? I know when I was dating (back in the Iron Age) it wasn’t at all unusual to end up at a megaplex theatre on Saturday night with no plans beyond seeing ‘a movie.’ “Serenity” doesn’t exactly sound like ‘hot SF action film’ to the uninformed consumer, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/463 "2005-10-11T14:07:09Z")
The title might in fact have something to do with it. When I was at the theater the other day, two large groups of people were ahead of me, and they were still debating what to see. They were just reading the names of films off the marquee, and clearly didn’t know much about any of them. ‘Serenity’ doesn’t sound like the kind of movie you’re just pick on a whim. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/464 "2005-10-11T14:11:05Z")
Well, here’s some good news: [Serenity knocks ‘Pride and Prejudice’ out of #1 Spot](http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=2005-10-11T124121Z_01_KRA145614_RTRUKOC_0_UK-LEISURE-BRITAIN-FILM.xml&archived=False) > [@](#): > > Sci-fi action adventure “Serenity” has knocked “Pride and Prejudice” from the top of the UK Box Office charts after three weeks at number one, Screen International said on Tuesday. > > The film, directed by Joss Whedon who created “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” and based on the TV series “Firefly”, follows the motley crew of a spaceship named Serenity living at the edge of the law in a Wild West-style frontier of deep space. > > It meant the adaptation of Jane Austen’s novel starring Keira Knightley and Matthew MacFadyen dropped down to second place despite having taken 11.4 million pounds since it was released in Britain. It will be interesting to see if the perception of the movie is very different in Europe, but this is a good sign. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/465 "2005-10-11T14:15:15Z")
More (slightly) good news: [Serenity Beats Weekend Estimate](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?yr=2005&wknd=40&p=.htm). Serenity was estimated to make 4.81 million, for 9th place on the weekend. The actual was 5.35 million, moving it to 8th place. I don’t know how they do the estimates, but tracking ahead of expectations is always good. Maybe word of mouth is starting to have an effect. ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/466 "2005-10-11T16:53:31Z")
**AerynSun** already mentioned this, but I thought I’d be more specific. Dr. Caron, the woman in the holograph who revealed the source of the Reavers, is played by Sarah Paulson, the same actress who played Miss Isringhausen in **Deadwood** I enjoyed that moment of Deadwood/Firefly Convergence. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/467 "2005-10-11T17:06:19Z")
> [@CBCD](#): > > **AerynSun** > Dr. Caron, the woman in the holograph who revealed the source of the Reavers, Charon ferried the souls of the dead across the river Styx in Greek mythology. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/468 "2005-10-11T21:20:15Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > I’m willing to assume that: > > A) River was hamming it up and took a dramatic pose > B) A Reaver (or part of one) fell on the button to open the door as he fell over dead > C) River used some not-seen-before teek trick to trigger the button > D) Dripping Reaver-gibs shorted out the controls, opening the door > E) The doors in the installation are all equipped with Dramatic Timing Devices (DTDs) which determine when to open and close based on dramatic importance (this is how doors invariably close immediately after a good guy’s coat tails have transited through, and immediatly before any villians (Darth Vader, etc.) can get to the doors. Any explanations that involve her choosing to open the door go up against the fact that she went in there to _close and lock the door_ in the first place. If she were only going through to kick some Reaver ass, why not just wait and do so one at a time as they squeeze through the bottleneck? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/469 "2005-10-11T21:22:46Z")
> [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > Any explanations that involve her choosing to open the door go up against the fact that she went in there to _close and lock the door_ in the first place. If she were only going through to kick some Reaver ass, why not just wait and do so one at a time as they squeeze through the bottleneck? To keep them away from her friends, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/470 "2005-10-11T21:24:22Z")
And her brother, especially him. She only went in after he was shot. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/471 "2005-10-11T21:29:32Z")
> [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > Any explanations that involve her choosing to open the door go up against the fact that she went in there to _close and lock the door_ in the first place. If she were only going through to kick some Reaver ass, why not just wait and do so one at a time as they squeeze through the bottleneck? Because she went through there to get Simon’s medical kit, so he could help Kaylee. She even tried to get back through the door afterwards, but the Reavers dragged her back. Besides, even if she intended to slaughter all the Reavers, she still didn’t necessarily know she’d be succesful. Locking herself out there with them made sure her friends were safe even if the Reavers took her down. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/472 "2005-10-11T21:45:09Z")
Ah, yes, forgot about that medkit. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/473 "2005-10-11T23:50:44Z")
I thought that they mentioned locking the door, but Kaylee said that it could only be done from the other side, so River went through to get the medkit and lock the door. If the point was locking the door, it had to be more than just hitting a button could undo, else it would hardly stay locked to the Reavers. And _of course_ she could beat the Reavers. After all, no power in the 'verse can stop her. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/474 "2005-10-12T00:47:48Z")
Another possibility: Mal opened the door. That backup com center probably had overrides for the security systems. After he accomplished his primary mission, he used the security cameras to check up on his friends, and seeing that River had Roncomaticed the Reavers and that she was on the opposite side of a locked door from the others, he opened it. In this scenario, River might have been holding that pose for several minutes, while she processed what she’d done… She certainly didn’t seem in a hurry to move after the door opened. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/475 "2005-10-12T00:57:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Another possibility: Mal opened the door. That backup com center probably had overrides for the security systems. After he accomplished his primary mission, he used the security cameras to check up on his friends, and seeing that River had Roncomaticed the Reavers and that she was on the opposite side of a locked door from the others, he opened it. In this scenario, River might have been holding that pose for several minutes, while she processed what she’d done… She certainly didn’t seem in a hurry to move after the door opened. No, that can’t work, because his dialogue when he comes back shows that he doesn’t know what happened to River. I’m going with the Alliance remotely over-riding the door locks before busting down that wall. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/476 "2005-10-12T01:22:39Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Like the TV series, it’ll probably do only so-so in the theater, and then be a huge hit on DVD. Possibly encouraging precedent: The first _Austin Powers_ movie didn’t do particularly well in its original theatrical run. Then it became an absolutely monstrous hit on video as word spread, which enabled the sequel. Interestingly, the sequel made in its opening weekend what the first film made in its entire original run. I have to say, though, that having watched the machinations of Hollywood for a number of years, I’ve become pretty cynical about how the bean-counters make their decisions. If we get another Firefly movie, it will be after Whedon does _Goners_ and _Wonder Woman_, and it will take both of those movies being extremely profitable (plus _Serenity_ doing exceedingly well on video) for Whedon to have the clout to get it off the ground. I’d say odds are fairly heavily against. Oh, and regarding all the plot nitpicking: Whedon’s narrative structure for the film is a fairly radical departure from the TV series. Whereas the show was largely character-driven, with long, leisurely storylines being played out, the movie is quite consciously built on a basic action-movie architecture. It is specifically and deliberately designed to rush past at a gallop, giving you no time to think, carrying you along with it. There’s really no wonder about why some of the plot points don’t exactly stick together in retrospect. Example: What, precisely, was Jayne going to do when he went into the dining area where River was tied up? He has his weapon handy, and he mentions something about getting off the ship. Was he going to toss her out the airlock? Shoot her? Stick her in a shuttle and go collect the ree-ward? Or what? …Don’t bother thinking about it, because the answer is simple: Joss had a pretty big lump of exposition to deliver, i.e. River telling us what Miranda is about, and it would be boring if she just knocked and gave a little speech about it. He decided to layer the exposition in with an action-movie beat, so he had Jayne do something only vaguely motivated, and then launched into a cat-and-mouse game, culminating with River pointing a gun at Mal while pointing at the computer screen. In retrospect, those couple of minutes are completely unnecessary; they’re empty action-movie calories that don’t need to be there at all. It’s a spoonful of sugar with a droplet of expositional medicine on top. It’s entertaining while it’s happening, but in retrospect it’s kind of dopey.) And the point is, the whole movie is designed to work like that. I know Whedon fans are sort of compulsive about revisiting material and looking for connections, and I’ll admit, there’s more here than in the average action movie that merits repeated viewings and detailed consideration. (Take the scene where River has her freakout on Miranda; the camera is whirling around her to suggest her confusion, and then Jayne steps forward, agreeing with her while the camera continues to circle. At the end, he says something like, “…and they all died for no reason.” At that point, the camera stops— with Wash in the center of the frame.) But I gotta tell ya, the movie just isn’t built the same way as the series, and trying to shoehorn all the bits and pieces together into a streamlined and sensible whole is a fool’s game. Whedon, in a deliberate attempt to expand the film’s audience beyond the fan base, consciously made _Serenity_ as an action movie, with all that implies. It isn’t supposed to inspire deep thinking, you guys. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/477 "2005-10-12T01:43:01Z")
The Goooooogle ads are getting better targeted: > [@](#): > > Firefly DVD - Free > Get The Complete Series for Free Not a joke or a scam. > [FreeDVDs.MaxMoolah.com](http://FreeDVDs.MaxMoolah.com) It is too a scam, at least by my definition (you’ve clearly got to buy a whole bunch of other stuff to get your ‘free’ vids), but at least ads for _Firefly_ fans are showing up in a _Firefly_ thread. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/478 "2005-10-12T01:45:22Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > It isn’t supposed to inspire deep thinking, you guys. 🙂 But…but…if we don’t obsess over every little freaking detail, we’ll have to have… lives!!! The horror, the horror… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/479 "2005-10-12T02:17:33Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Example: What, precisely, was Jayne going to do when he went into the dining area where River was tied up? He has his weapon handy, and he mentions something about getting off the ship. Was he going to toss her out the airlock? Shoot her? Stick her in a shuttle and go collect the ree-ward? \ I thought he explicitly mentioned the shuttle. But you’re right - it doesn’t make much sense. What was he going to do, just toss her in the shuttle and fire it off somewhere? They were in deep space, right? He wasn’t going to leave with her, that’s for sure. Maybe he planned to kill her, then throw her in the shuttle and rocket it away, so that he could claim that she must have taken the shuttle and run, and deflect blame from himself. The thing is, by the end of the series, Jayne was much more integrated into the crew, as were River and Simon. The movie clearly regressed those characters back to the state they were in about the time the series started. I agree with everything else you said. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/480 "2005-10-12T03:12:46Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > The thing is, by the end of the series, Jayne was much more integrated into the crew, as were River and Simon. The movie clearly regressed those characters back to the state they were in about the time the series started. To a certain extent that was done to further the story. I disagree about Jayne though. He is integrated like a dog that gets beaten with a chain when he begins to turn bad. Jayne is ready to knee cap his employer if offered his own room, or sell out his ship mates for enough money. He chose to be crew only because Mal can sucker punch him with a wrench if he doesn’t behave and might do the right thing next time and defenestrate him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=25)