# Serenity (Open spoilers a plenty! You've been warned!)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011 "2005-09-29T13:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/481 "2005-10-12T04:02:28Z")
No, I don’t agree. In “War Stories”, Jayne kicked in his _money_ to buy back Wash and Mal. And from all accounts, we know it was a lot of money. Jayne is _all about the money_. For him to give it up voluntarily to save others in the crew was a definite character development moment in the series. Also, at the beginning of that episode the crew are eating apples that were provided by Jayne, and commenting about his generosity. I think that wrench knocked some sense into Jayne, and he was always a better crew member after that. The key moment was when he told Mal not to tell the others what he had done. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/482 "2005-10-12T06:01:55Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Whedon, in a deliberate attempt to expand the film’s audience beyond the fan base, consciously made _Serenity_ as an action movie, with all that implies. It isn’t supposed to inspire deep thinking, you guys. 🙂 Feh. I’m a postmodernist. I can find meaning in the back of a milk carton, a bowl of Alphabits, or a post on usenet. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/483 "2005-10-12T06:18:47Z")
By the by, [Orson Scott Card](http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2005-09-30-extra.shtml) wrote a positive review of Firefly. I don’t think there’s any spoilers in the review. ---
**Author:** ![NardoPolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NardoPolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NardoPolo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/484 "2005-10-12T11:38:27Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally Posted by Cervaise_ > What, precisely, was Jayne going to do when he went into the dining area where River was tied up? He has his weapon handy, and he mentions something about getting off the ship. Was he going to toss her out the airlock? Shoot her? Stick her in a shuttle and go collect the ree-ward? He heard a noise just beyond the door, indicating that River was loose, and was going to investigate. His words were, “We’re going to go for a nice shuttle ride” - that’s not a threat, that’s an attempt to lure her out into the open. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by CarnivorousPlant_ > Jayne is ready to knee cap his employer if offered his own room, or sell out his ship mates for enough money. He chose to be crew only because Mal can sucker punch him with a wrench if he doesn’t behave and might do the right thing next time and defenestrate him. I disagree; not the current Jayne. He learned his lessons about selling out the crew. Consider Jayne’s actions when River has her first berserk moment in the bar. Jayne actually helps River clobber one or two bystanders, and then grabs her instead of swinging to knock her out entirely. I forget his words then – something like “Calm down, girl - it’s me” before she grabs his jewels. Additionally, I think sucker punching would be out of character for Mal vs. any of his own crew or acquaintances - even Jayne. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/485 "2005-10-12T14:14:26Z")
> [@NardoPolo](#): > > Additionally, I think sucker punching would be out of character for Mal vs. any of his own crew or acquaintances - even Jayne. Mal loves to sucker punch people, including Jayne. He sucker-punched him in ‘Ariel’, and he had Zoe sucker-punch a guy in ‘The Train Job’. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/486 "2005-10-12T18:47:56Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > For him to give it up voluntarily to save others in the crew was a definite character development moment in the series. Also, at the beginning of that episode the crew are eating apples that were provided by Jayne, and commenting about his generosity. I don’t know if it’s that simple. I think Jayne is feeling guilty, yes, but not in the “I done something I know is bad” sense; it’s more like “I done something _other people_ will think is bad, and I don’t want them to find out about it.” In my view, Jayne is trying to be friendly and generous to pre-emptively distract the crew from thinking badly of him, so they’ll be less likely to reconsider his actions on Ariel. It’s like a kid who breaks one of his mother’s favorite knickknacks, hides the pieces, and then makes his mom breakfast in bed. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/487 "2005-10-12T19:12:08Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Also, at the beginning of that episode the crew are eating apples that were provided by Jayne, and commenting about his generosity. Certainly a friendly gesture after selling the Tams to the Feds. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/488 "2005-10-12T19:24:20Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > The title might in fact have something to do with it. When I was at the theater the other day, two large groups of people were ahead of me, and they were still debating what to see. They were just reading the names of films off the marquee, and clearly didn’t know much about any of them. ‘Serenity’ doesn’t sound like the kind of movie you’re just pick on a whim. Unfortunately, I think you’re right. I was talking to a guy this weekend who’d seen the movie last weekend. Didn’t now anything about it going into it, just knew his buddy wanted to see it. He said his first reaction when his friend suggested it was “Serenity? I don’t want to see a stupid chick flick.” But, once he saw it, he loved it and was asking me for details about the series. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/489 "2005-10-12T19:39:57Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > And it’s not like anyone went to see Titanic without being psychologically prepared for the - spoiler - big boat sinking at the end. Well, then, let’s go to the **real** (in constant dollars champ). Audiences had no idea whether Rhett and Scarlett would live Happily Ever After when they first encountered the story (either in the book or the movie, whichever they happened upon first). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/490 "2005-10-12T19:41:46Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > Unfortunately, I think you’re right. I was talking to a guy this weekend who’d seen the movie last weekend. Didn’t now anything about it going into it, just knew his buddy wanted to see it. He said his first reaction when his friend suggested it was “Serenity? I don’t want to see a stupid chick flick.” But, once he saw it, he loved it and was asking me for details about the series. I think we need a re-release with a slightly reworked title: _Serenity Blows Shit the Fuck Up_ Guaranteed franchise. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/491 "2005-10-12T19:45:45Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Well, then, let’s go to the **real** (in constant dollars champ). Audiences had no idea whether Rhett and Scarlett would live Happily Ever After when they first encountered the story (either in the book or the movie, whichever they happened upon first). Different era. Before the fabled Hollywood Happy Ending. It would have been a formulaic melodrama, predictable in all of its story beats, except for the fact the formula hadn’t been settled yet. And seriously, by the end of Gone With the Wind, I don’t care how they end up, as long as they _end_. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/492 "2005-10-12T19:47:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think we need a re-release with a slightly reworked title: > > _Serenity Blows Shit the Fuck Up_ > > Guaranteed franchise. Ooh! Ooh! **Serenity : Reaver Fever**. _nod_ No? **Attack of the Reavers**? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/493 "2005-10-12T19:59:05Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Given enough time, I’d be willing to bet money, and lots of it, that \*Firefly \*would have had its own _Smile Time_ as it wasn’t any more dark than \*Angel \*was at its peak. Agreed. I don’t think it’s any great reach to speculate that, if the series had continued, there would have been an “Alliance ups the priority of retrieving (or, failing that, killing) River” story arc, and that it would have included some serious grimness. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/494 "2005-10-12T20:01:23Z")
**Mal and Zoe and Simon And River** **Serenity: The Alliance Strikes Back** **Dude, Where’s My Spaceship?** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/495 "2005-10-12T20:04:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Jayne is ready to knee cap his employer if offered his own room, or sell out his ship mates for enough money. He chose to be crew only because Mal can sucker punch him with a wrench if he doesn’t behave and might do the right thing next time and defenestrate him. Jayne would like folks (including himself) to think he’s all about the money, but he does have a real loyalty to Mal. In the pilot, the real reason he didn’t go through with betraying Mal is that loyalty, but he can’t admit that. So he says the money wasn’t enough. It never would be. The thing is, though, his loyalty is specifically and solely to Mal. He doesn’t really have a strong notion of “team”. Before “Ariel”, he just didn’t have the concept that betraying a member of Mal’s crew amounted to a betrayal of Mal himself. Maybe that dose of fresh air the Captain treated him to got the idea across to him… I’d certainly hope so. And there’s more to his “What will you tell the crew?” than “don’t get caught”. Remember, at that moment, he thinks Mal is about to kill him. He’s already caught, and he’s about to be dead. He shouldn’t care what the crew thinks of him after that… But he does. There’s more depth there than he likes to let on. The Jayne in the airlock there was the same Jayne who couldn’t understand the townsfolk of Canton setting his statue back up. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/496 "2005-10-12T20:13:31Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > The key moment was when he told Mal not to tell the others what he had done. That certainly struck me as the key to making it at all believable that Mal would decide to let him live and (somewhat) trust him again. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/497 "2005-10-12T23:09:34Z")
Breaking news: Director’s commentary will be on the DVD of Serenity (of course), and here is a [list](http://www.whedon.info/article.php3?id_article=11883) of deleted/extended scenes, also with commentary. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/498 "2005-10-12T23:13:51Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Breaking news: Director’s commentary will be on the DVD of Serenity (of course), and here is a [list](http://www.whedon.info/article.php3?id_article=11883) of deleted/extended scenes, also with commentary. 😃 > [@Article](#): > > 00:01:05:20 (EXTENDED KAYLEE AND JAYNE) What? No! We want EXTENDED KAYLEE AND SIMON! What’s **wrong** with them? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/499 "2005-10-12T23:15:35Z")
Wouldn’t Simon be extended already? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011/500 "2005-10-12T23:34:50Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Ooh! Ooh! > > \*\* Reaver Fever\*\*. I like it! Someone print a t-shirt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/serenity-open-spoilers-a-plenty-youve-been-warned/324011.md?page=26)